Misty Copeland

[abatt]

The irony here also is that ABT is going out of its way to highlight Misty and create project plie, while at the same time Misty has asserted that she has been the victim of racism at ABT. ( ABT is the only professional ballet company she has been affiliated with.) I believe project plie was in response to, and was created after, Misty, in conjunction with Team Misty, started her media blitz regarding ballet racism.

Given all these outside projects she now has lined up (a reality show, movie deals, book deals, commercials) is there any possbility she may leave to focus on these other career trajectories.

[Helene]

Misty Copeland's stage career at ABT has not gone anywhere past any one of her peers since she's spoken out. If Washington Ballet has hired her, they've got someone who will sell tickets, regardless of the reason. Assuming that Washington Ballet is trying to do the "right thing" is entirely unsubstantiated, or they would have hired an unknown black ballerina to dance Odette/Odile. I doubt Maria Kochetkova would get hall of the opportunities she has taken advantage of if she didn't self-promote herself vigilantly, given her relatively low-level Russian credentials (but impeccable training). Kochetkova is an example where self-promotion has a direct impact on a stage career, something that hasn't happened for Copeland.

Since there has been no attempt at affirmative action that I know that comes even close to leveling the playing field, calling it privilege is, at best, misguided, and, towards the other end of the spectrum, offensive.

[abatt]

Maria Kochetkova's publicity has not consisted of claiming she's a victim of racism or any other "ism".

[Helene]

The basis on which a dancer self-promotes is irrelevant: if Washington Ballet were interested in being more inclusive, they would have hired a black ballerina before Copeland, with her fame, came along and was a name that sold tickets. Ballet Gala X and Company Y could have hired many ballerinas with Kochetkova's training and lineage, but they hire her, because she sells tickets.

I don't think it's ironic at all that ABT has created Project Plie, which addresses the issue of making ballet education more inclusive, while not affecting how she is cast.

[abatt]

How can it be irrelevant that the basis of Misty's self promotion is that she is a victim of racism? The basis of Maria K's promotion is that she can spin like a top and do all kinds of technical tricks. That's related to Maria's skill set. Maria is not maligning others or asserting that others acted inappropriately towards her. Racism is a serious charge to level against a person or organization. How can the distinction between how Maria has promoted herself and how Misty has promoted herself be irrelevant to the conversation? Maybe Misty was a victim of racism. I don't know. But there is certainly a big difference between that assertion and other dancers who promote themselves based on their skill set or their artistry.

[kfw]

I don't assume Washington Ballet is trying to Do the Right Thing; I assume Webre actually wants to do the right thing (I assume that he too is a decent person), but also that he knows doing it will sell lots of tickets.

Since there has been no attempt at affirmative action that I know that comes even close to leveling the playing field, calling it privilege is, at best, misguided, and, towards the other end of the spectrum, offensive.

People frequently take offense in these debates, I'm afraid. Again, I'm not talking about leveling the playing field, I'm talking about what Copeland has encountered personally, and what effect race has had one her success personally. When we look at that, it's a safe bet that in the ballet world, even if she encountered antagonism based on her race, she also has also encountered encouragement and support based in part on it. Outside of the ballet world, she wouldn't be a star except for her race. I have no problem with Copeland self-promoting in principle. I object to her doing it by making other people - people who have probably actually helped her - look bad. And I object to someone claiming to be a role model for little kids but posing more or less topless.

[Helene]

As far as selling tickets is concerned, there is very little difference. Companies hire dancers to sell tickets. If dancers are well known outside a very small number of aficionados, they bring in new audiences and audiences that are interested in ballet, but need to be sold, ex: the ones that will only buy tickets to see "Giselle" if Osipova is dancing because she got a big article in the preview, not to see the Bolshoi or whatever company she's performing with on any given day and any number of great dancers they might bring.

As far a Copeland selling herself solely on the basis of race, I think that is a very narrow and short-sighted way to describe it. She is claiming that her talent and artistry have been held back because of racism, which many audience members, although certainly not all, believe is true. It is just as much an argument about suppressed talent as it is about race, even if the race angle is what distinguishes her from other dancers for any number of reasons that have not captured the public imagination and have stuck beyond a single campaign. As a result of this interest by the public, she is able to sell tickets, and that is music to a company's bank account.

As long as she sells tickets, there will be audiences who decide on whether she has talent and artistry.

I have no idea if this is correlated in any way, but I've noticed recently that in Met in HD series, the camera people who film the audiences at the beginning of the broadcast have been choosing as many people of color and as many young people as possible, whereas in the past, it seemed like they were focusing on the average, older audience member. The ideas that perhaps if people see an audience like them, they will come to the theater more, and, perhaps in time, encourage their children to attend and participate, and that the more traditional demographics begin to see that the audience is more than themselves, are another critical aspect of diversification in any of the arts.

I hope the audiences that Copeland brings into the theater stick, and that this is part of the legacy of the discussion she has re-opened.

[abatt]

Good luck to the Met in HD camera people in finding young people at the Saturday matinees of the opera. The Sat matinee in particular is notorious for being loaded with oldsters.

[kfw]

As far as selling tickets is concerned, there is very little difference.

Yes, Webre gets to promote racial diversity in ballet and take care of the bottom line too. There is no conflict and no downside.

As far a Copeland selling herself solely on the basis of race, I think that is a very narrow and short-sighted way to describe it. She is claiming that her talent and artistry have been held back because of racism, which many audience members, although certainly not all, believe is true. It is just as much an argument about suppressed talent as it is about race, even if the race angle is what distinguishes her from other dancers for any number of reasons that have not captured the public imagination and have stuck beyond a single campaign.

She's not selling herself solely on the basis of race. She's succeeding in selling herself getting positive attention from the outside world, indeed, because of her claim that her talent and artistry were held back because of racism. If her race hurt held her back in the ballet world, it's benefiting her now, at Washington Ballet, at Amour, Oxygen, etc.

[Helene]

Outside of the ballet world, she wouldn't be a star except for her race.

I'm not sure I understand your argument: are you saying that in other worlds -- examples: the world of figure skating, the world of astrophysics, the world of speed skating, where blacks are underrepresented -- claiming to have encountered racial discrimination would not have an impact on a career trajectory? If that's your argument, then it follows that race may be a bigger issue in ballet than elsewhere, and she would be right to bring it up. Or are you saying she wouldn't be a star in any other field, because the same claim could be said of most major league athletes and biology professors if they we in another field.

If anything, ballet is closest to figure skating in that it is judged, and competitors and dancers have a deeply imbedded cultural aversion to speaking out against authority. They are still "boys" and "girls." Speaking up about race could easily have blown up in Copeland's face, given the culture of ballet. It was a huge risk for her to take. That it hasn't backfired is rather remarkable.

Again, I'm not talking about leveling the playing field, I'm talking about what Copeland has encountered personally, and what effect race has had one her success personally. When we look at that, it's a safe bet that in the ballet world, even if she encountered antagonism based on her race, she also has also encountered encouragement and support based in part on it.

I have no problem with Copeland self-promoting in principle. I object to her doing it by making other people - people who have probably actually helped her - look bad.

Copeland has been outspoken about the people who have helped her. Were you there to witness and affirm that the people whom she said blocked her did nothing of the sort and helped her instead? If I follow you correctly, you dismiss her experience and her conclusions through an assumption that everyone she encountered was entirely decent and had the best intentions. Because if that's a real place, I want to work wherever that is.

She has told her story and her experience, giving details, and she was there to experience them. Her judgement is likely off here or there, because she's human and no one is completely objective, but to exact a standard of perfection would dismiss all biography, all autobiography, and all scholarly research.

And I object to someone claiming to be a role model for little kids but posing more or less topless.

I must have missed those photos or that film, but I remember what the great actor Helen Mirren said in interviews when "Excalibur" was released, that in England there weren't the strict typecasting of work, and actors did everything from Shakespeare to soft porn. I prefer broader and more complex role models, and ones that do not dismiss female sexuality.

[kfw]

I'm not sure I understand your argument: are you saying that in other worlds -- examples: the world of figure skating, the world of astrophysics, the world of speed skating, where blacks are underrepresented -- claiming to have encountered racial discrimination would not have an impact on a career trajectory? If that's your argument, then it follows that race may be a bigger issue in ballet than elsewhere, and she would be right to bring it up. Or are you saying she wouldn't be a star in any other field, because the same claim could be said of most major league athletes and biology professors if they we in another field.

If anything, ballet is closest to figure skating in that it is judged, and competitors and dancers have a deeply imbedded cultural aversion to speaking out against authority. They are still "boys" and "girls." Speaking up about race could easily have blown up in Copeland's face, given the culture of ballet. It was a huge risk for her to take. That it hasn't backfired is rather remarkable.

That’s where we disagree, and that’s why I asked, rhetorically, if you’d hire an African-American over a white person with the same qualifications. I think that the arts and academic worlds are dominated – and I don’t mean that pejoratively – by liberals. Therefore Copeland is more likely to have encountered encouragement than discouragement, or at least more of the former than the latter.

Copeland has been outspoken about the people who have helped her. Were you there to witness and affirm that the people whom she said blocked her did nothing of the sort and helped her instead? If I follow you correctly, you dismiss her experience and her conclusions through an assumption that everyone she encountered was entirely decent and had the best intentions. Because if that's a real place, I want to work wherever that is. She has told her story and her experience, giving details, and she was there to experience them. Her judgement is likely off here or there, because she's human and no one is completely objective, but to exact a standard of perfection would dismiss all biography, all autobiography, and all scholarly research.

If you think I think “everyone” anything, or that I dismiss rather than suspect her story, than I’m afraid you haven’t read what I said (at length) carefully. I have repeatedly said why I suspect it. If she’s thanking people who have helped her especially, who wanted her especially, to succeed because she is African-American, good for her. I haven’t seen it. I don’t think perfect perception is the issue. The basic accuracy of the narrative is. But yes, as I think I said elsewhere, she could easily think she perceived racism, even if it wasn’t there. Can’t blame her for that.

I must have missed those photos

See the bottom of page two of this thread.

I prefer broader and more complex role models, and ones that do not dismiss female sexuality.

Sure, but we’re talking about modeling behavior for kids and teens, and there are ways to be sexy and sexual without being provocative.

[abatt]

The photo to which KFW is alluding was contained in the link earlier in this threat to the cocoafab website, announcing Misty's new Oxygen reality show.

[dirac]

The photo to which KFW is alluding was contained in the link earlier in this threat to the cocoafab website, announcing Misty's new Oxygen reality show.

It's right here.

Cover up that nipple, strumpet!

[dirac]

That’s where we disagree, and that’s why I asked, rhetorically, if you’d hire an African-American over a white person with the same qualifications. I think that the arts and academic worlds are dominated – and I don’t mean that pejoratively – by liberals. Therefore Copeland is more likely to have encountered encouragement than discouragement, or at least more of the former than the latter.

She's darn lucky to be black, if you ask me.

[Helene]

The photo to which KFW is alluding was contained in the link earlier in this threat to the cocoafab website, announcing Misty's new Oxygen reality show.

It's right here.

Cover up that nipple, strumpet!

I think that's a great photo.

[Mme. Hermine]

nice pose, don't like the transparency much.

[kfw]

That’s where we disagree, and that’s why I asked, rhetorically, if you’d hire an African-American over a white person with the same qualifications. I think that the arts and academic worlds are dominated – and I don’t mean that pejoratively – by liberals. Therefore Copeland is more likely to have encountered encouragement than discouragement, or at least more of the former than the latter.

She's darn lucky to be black, if you ask me.

Since, all things considered, being black is a still a handicap in America, it’s therefore simply not possible that any black person at any time anywhere in the country could benefit from being black. The one simply rules out the other. That’s the (il)logic of your sarcasm. Also, since black people have suffered so cruelly, any African-American who claims any specific instance of racial victimization is to be believed about that instance, period, and questioning her story is offensive. Somebody somewhere once talked about judging people by the content of their character, not their skin color. It looks to me as if Copeland, like the rest of us, is a mixed bag.

[Helene]

Since, all things considered, being black is a still a handicap in America, it’s therefore simply not possible that any black person at any time anywhere in the country could benefit from being black.

Or the odds of benefiting any individual are very small, and that there's been no convincing argument, but only the assertion, that Copeland has benefited from being black, when the odds for it are slim, and in the profession she is in, with its ingrained paternalistic culture, where speaking out about anything can be a career killer, the odds are even smaller.

Also, since black people have suffered so cruelly, any African-American who claims any specific instance of racial victimization is to be believed about that instance, period, and questioning her story is offensive.

Questioning a story is not offensive in itself; we're discussing the basis for questioning it. From what I've read on this thread, you've offered no specifics about why you're questioning the details she's provided about her personal experience. First, the assertion that an alleged liberalness surrounding ballet -- perhaps someone should alert the Koch Brothers, Altria, Exxon Mobil, etc. or for that matter, Balanchine, and his administrator who voiced anti-Semitic rants against Ruthana Boris and kept his job -- means that Copeland must have been treated preferentially because she was black, ignores the wide range of political beliefs and backgrounds of the board members, donors, administrators, and artists in ballet, not to mention ignoring institutionalized racism in liberal institutions. That ballet someone how transcended race, that everyone in ballet is trying to do the right thing and is color-blind except when they're treating people of color preferentially, is an opinion, but hardly as substantiated one.

Somebody somewhere once talked about judging people by the content of their character, not their skin color. It looks to me as if Copeland, like the rest of us, is a mixed bag.

That someone never discounted the character needed to endure racism or any other '-ism, nor was he an example of someone who did not call out racism when he saw it or believed that the conversation was over.

[kfw]

there's been no convincing argument, but only the assertion, that Copeland has benefited from being black

I don’t believe anyone has any doubts why Copeland’s getting so much attention outside of the ballet world.

the Koch Brothers, Altria, Exxon Mobil, etc.

don’t teach class, promote, or cast. Copeland isn’t claiming David Koch held her back. Decent people help people who’ve been disadvantaged. I assume - or if you will, presume - ABT is filled with decent people, Therefore Copeland probably received more support than opposition, if she did receive opposition.

That someone never discounted the character needed to endure racism or any other '-ism,

I’ve expressed admiration for Copeland – but not unalloyed admiration.

nor was he an example of someone who did not call out racism when he saw it or believed that the conversation was over.

Finally someone comes right out with the charge (although very carefully because BA rules forbid ad hominem attacks), the standard charge whenever someone criticizes a member of a minority. People are just people. though, and we won’t truly have a colorblind society until we all get past that.

[vipa]

I've been reading all comments with interest. I believe that frank, well intentioned discussions about race happen too infrequently in our country, and so think it is a good conversation to be having.

Copeland has been offered/created mass marketing opportunities, and has taken full advantage. I say good for her. Why not raise the profile of ballet and attract a more diverse audience? I will be interested to see if DTH ticket sales benefit, or if Copeland herself is the sole beneficiary.

Personally, I don't care for Copeland's dancing. What disturbs me, is that when I mention this to some ballet fans that I know, a few insist that what I'm really saying is that I don't like the "black" body type in ballet. When I say I don't care for Hee Seo (which I don't) people accept that there are things about her performance quality and technique that I find lacking, and it has nothing to do with the fact she is Korean. Clearly there is a lot of racism in this country, but that doesn't mean that racism is behind every reaction to an individual of color.

[kfw]

Copeland has been offered/created mass marketing opportunities, and has taken full advantage. I say good for her. Why not raise the profile of ballet and attract a more diverse audience?

Amen to that!

[Tapfan]

Although he is very talented, I think Eminem got more attention because he was a white rapper in a field dominated by black males. Same thing with the Beastie Boys.

Where was the outrage about the attention paid to these artists? The fact that they were white undoubtedly added to their appeal and the ability of white audiences to identify with their music.

[Kathleen O'Connell]

I think that the arts and academic worlds are dominated – and I don’t mean that pejoratively – by liberals. Therefore Copeland is more likely to have encountered encouragement than discouragement, or at least more of the former than the latter.

And yet ... and yet ... those liberals tolerate on-stage stereotypes that would be considered beyond the pale in other circles.

One doesn't have to look hard and long for examples. How Peter Martins gets away with his apparent propensity to cast Von Rothbart with a dancer of color every time he has an opportunity to do so escapes me. What is a young dancer of color supposed to think when he or she observes that a dancer as talented and charismatic as Albert Evans has been cast as Von Rothbart while Nilas Martins - Nilas Martins -- has been cast as Prince Siegfried? What is any young dancer or audience member supposed to think, for that matter? Or when they observe that in the Martins era at least, blond is apparently the only hair color Apollo may have. (Robert Fairchild is the recent exception that proves the rule). Not to pick on NYCB, but OK, I will -- why does anyone on the company's artistic staff think it's a good idea to cast a dark-skinned dancer as the Orangutan in Wheeldon's "Carnival of the Animals," charming though that dancer may be? There are just some things a thoughtful person tactfully avoids and lets the protests of "Too PC!" and "SJW!" (Social Justice Warrior -- see Gamergate) fall where they may.

I'll save the tirade about "Tea" in The Nutcracker and the effeminate, mincing retainer in Martins' "Magic Flute" for another day. My point is that even an environment as allegedly liberal as the arts tolerates -- or perhaps I should say, manages not to see -- the perpetuation of some pretty corrosive stereotypes. Copeland didn't need to be subjected to overt racism to perceive that the world she was in wasn't as welcoming as it thought it was.

[Tapfan]

I've been reading all comments with interest. I believe that frank, well intentioned discussions about race happen too infrequently in our country, and so think it is a good conversation to be having.

Copeland has been offered/created mass marketing opportunities, and has taken full advantage. I say good for her. Why not raise the profile of ballet and attract a more diverse audience? I will be interested to see if DTH ticket sales benefit, or if Copeland herself is the sole beneficiary.

Personally, I don't care for Copeland's dancing. What disturbs me, is that when I mention this to some ballet fans that I know, a few insist that what I'm really saying is that I don't like the "black" body type in ballet. When I say I don't care for Hee Seo (which I don't) people accept that there are things about her performance quality and technique that I find lacking, and it has nothing to do with the fact she is Korean. Clearly there is a lot of racism in this country, but that doesn't mean that racism is behind every reaction to an individual of color.

I can appreciate that someone can dislike Misty's dancing and it have nothing to do with her figure or race.

The problem is that for various reasons, there aren't more female, black classical dancers who are well known. Miss Copeland has become the symbol for all black women in classical dance. So she gets all the attention even if there are other black women who may be more deserving of the high profile Misty enjoys.

While I am thrilled to see Misty bring new audiences to classical ballet, I want to see and hear from other black women. Right now in her interviews, Misty is just repeating the same things over and over.

The mainstream media has a bad habit of concentrating too much on just those black celebrities with the most buzz, while ignoring others who are worthy of notice.

When Michael Jackson's Thriller and Prince's Purple Rain were topping the record charts, white popular music critics couldn't get enough of either guy.

But some black critics pointed out the fact that they were paying so much attention to these two artists because they wanted to prove that they actually cared about black musicians while, they proceeded to ignore 99 percent of them.

The same thing was said by black entertainment writers when some white folks went out of their way to gush about Halle Berry after her Oscar win. You'd think they'd never seen a beautiful black woman before.

My point is that really appreciating diversity means knowing there's always more than one.

And when I say there's always more than one when referring to ballet, I DON'T mean only retired black dancers like Alicia Graff, Lauren Anderson and Virginia Johnson. There are black women dancing today that are great and ignored.

[Helene]

Finally someone comes right out with the charge (although very carefully because BA rules forbid ad hominem attacks), the standard charge whenever someone criticizes a member of a minority. People are just people. though, and we won’t truly have a colorblind society until we all get past that.

My charge, in case it wasn't clear in the first place, is that not only did you misrepresent what Martin Luther King, Jr. was saying, but also the context, which was a future, sadly, much farther away, than many had hoped, and his continual fight against racism.

As far as your general arguments, you've done nothing to convince me that your assertions that the ballet world is overwhelmingly liberal and that the people in it are overwhelming trying to do the right thing, and, as a result, this negates one woman's experience which she's detailed, and, in fact, she has been given preferential treatment because of her race.