Deborah Kerr

[papeetepatrick]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/arts/AP-Ob...alSz457uLFaf6mQ

She was one of the greatest. She's another one I can't think of ever doing a bad performance, and her voice had a rich, creamy timbre. How can one not be grateful to Deborah Kerr? There was not another like her. Not only fantastic in 'From Here to Eternity' and 'The King and I', but uncanny in 'The Night of the Iguana' (Ava Gardner, Richard Burton and the others perhaps equally so--I think that's Gardner's best performance too), with her old poet-father, who finally finishes the poem about 'how calmly does the orange branch observe the sky begin to blanch...' or something like that, and she exclaims 'Oh, it's a beautiful poem, Nonno!' But also quite sumptuous as Miss Madrigal in 'The Chalk Garden', with that wonderful scene at the end, when Edith Evans decides to quit torturing her, but adds 'Before I die....I'll FIND OUT!' Put those two together, and you've got a form of theater heaven.

[dirac]

Thank you for posting this sad news, papeetepatrick. I didn’t know she had Parkinson’s, but the last time I saw her in public, at the Oscars quite a few years ago, she already looked frail, so I’m not surprised to hear it. Lovely woman and a fine actor. The roles that stand out for me offhand are the wife in ‘The Sundowners’ and the governess in ‘The Innocents.’ And she lent real feeling to the colorful absurdities of ‘Black Narcissus.’

She appeared in another movie with Ava Gardner, ‘The Hucksters,’ some years earlier at MGM, where they were competing love interests for Clark Gable. A long way from Tennessee Williams.

There’s another movie, ‘Perfect Strangers’ aka Vacation from Marriage, with Robert Donat. Not much of a film but they are both charming in it.

[papeetepatrick]

She appeared in another movie with Ava Gardner, ‘The Hucksters,’ some years earlier at MGM, where they were competing love interests for Clark Gable. A long way from Tennessee Williams.

There’s another movie, ‘Perfect Strangers’ aka Vacation from Marriage, with Robert Donat. Not much of a film but they are both charming in it.

Thanks for these, I just put holds on both of them, which I oughtn't to have missed. Agree about 'The Sundowners', she was always offering 'a cuppa'. But the list really goes on and on with her, 'The Grass is Greener' is wonderful, 'Tea and Sympathy', 'Black Narcissus' as you noted, and 'Heaven Knows, Mr. Allyson'. A tremendous range she had and absolutely beautiful.

It's getting to the point where we can almost count rather easily the old classic ones still left: Patricia Neal, Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fontaine, Jean Simmons...and Anita Page (!), last person alive to be at the first Oscars ceremony. And Mickey Rooney and Kirk Douglas.

[dirac]

It's getting to the point where we can almost count rather easily the old classic ones still left: Patricia Neal, Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fontaine, Jean Simmons...and Anita Page (!), last person alive to be at the first Oscars ceremony. And Mickey Rooney and Kirk Douglas.

When last I heard, Olivia and Joan still weren’t getting along. I imagine each is determined to outlive the other.

'Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison'

Robert Mitchum and Kerr were really good together, weren't they?

A long obituary in The Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml....xml&page=1

[cubanmiamiboy]

Not only fantastic in 'From Here to Eternity' ..

Sad news..."From here..." was the center piece of an ongoing joke between somebody who i always remember dearly and i...He would tease me all the time about how kitsh i was for listing the famous beach scene as one of my all time favorites...

It brings back a lot of memories...

RIP, Deborah Kerr...

[Gina Ness]

It's strange...I've been thinking of her this week after viewing (yet again!) The King and I. I even Googled her earlier this week to see if there was anything current on her...I really loved her! I was so surprised to hear of her passage today...What a remarkable woman and actress...

[Mashinka]

Sad news..."From here..." was the center piece of an ongoing joke between somebody who i always remember dearly and i...He would tease me all the time about how kitsh i was for listing the famous beach scene as one of my all time favorites...

I'm with you Christian, nothing kitsch about it at all. That was one of the most iconic scenes in the history of cinema.

Apart from the roles already mentioned, I always remember Deborah Kerr for Quo Vadis.

[ngitanjali]

The King and I was the first musical I watched with my mother, when I was five years old. Then, (my mother was a huge Deborah Kerr fan, as was my paternal grandmother), I was introduced to her "wholesome" British acting. What amazed me about her was her...serenity. Even in "From Here to Eternity", I always felt that she was serene and inwardly calm, even in the midst of that famous kiss ::sigh::. I think very few actresses had that quality: Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelly, maybe even, a teeny bit, Kate Hepburn.

I cried when I heard the news, but she had a long and wonderful life.

[papeetepatrick]

I was introduced to her "wholesome" British acting. What amazed me about her was her...serenity. Even in "From Here to Eternity", I always felt that she was serene and inwardly calm, even in the midst of that famous kiss ::sigh::. I think very few actresses had that quality: Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelly, maybe even, a teeny bit, Kate Hepburn.

I think I know what you mean, but Kerr had enough range to temporarily lose that serenity and inward calm for the beach with Burt Lancaster--she was very sensual and not losing it with Burt would have meant she was still thinking about nuns. I was talking with a friend yesterday who is very knowledgeable about film and we both seemed to think that maybe Katharine Hepburn and Deborah Kerr had the biggest ranges (probably should include Vanessa Redgrave too), and he said he didn't think, though, that Kerr had ever played a bitch; I don't know all of her many movies, although I know perhaps 3/4 of them: I can't think of one, although I imagine there may be, I think she could have done it. Any ideas on that, dirac? Katharine Hepburn doesn't seem to me to be serene, but rather imperious and often too proud, which serves her well in the hard things ('Lion in Winter' and her amazing 'Long Day's Journey Into Night'), but after the 30s she's never soft and feminine again to my mind, even in 'Summertime', where she's totally unconvincing next to Rosanno Brazzi--much more comfortable in 'The African Queen' and in that dress. Grace Kelly was a good actress whom I never found interesting except in 'To Catch a Thief', but many did.

I cried when I heard the news, but she had a long and wonderful life.

I found this one sadder than usual myself, can think of only 3 others over the years that have seemed such a loss, and Robert Mitchum, one of her best leading men, was one of them.

[dirac]

I cried when I heard the news, but she had a long and wonderful life.

When someone dies at an advanced age, especially after a long illness, of course it is sad, but think of the many people who never enjoy that kind of success and never reach 86. It’s an occasion for mourning but also for celebrating a life.

I was talking with a friend yesterday who is very knowledgeable about film and we both seemed to think that maybe Katharine Hepburn and Deborah Kerr had the biggest ranges (probably should include Vanessa Redgrave too), and he said he didn't think, though, that Kerr had ever played a bitch

I must disagree, respectfully, with you and your friend about Hepburn’s range; she had, IMO, one of the narrowest ranges of any of the great stars who were also distinguished actors. That’s not necessarily a Bad Thing, of course. (Kind of surprised that Bette Davis’ name didn’t come up in your discussion – not many superstars who can play queens, whores, society girls, Southern belles, and barmaids with equal conviction.)

her amazing 'Long Day's Journey Into Night'

She is indeed amazing, in spite of the fact that she’s all wrong for the part - Katharine Hepburn as lace curtain Irish? - but finally it doesn’t matter (and Richardson is not right for Tyrone, either, he could never have been a great matinee idol, but he’s wonderful anyway).

Grace Kelly was a good actress whom I never found interesting except in 'To Catch a Thief', but many did.

She was an okay actress. I thought it was a bad mistake putting her into the old Hepburn part in High Society, although it was a great success - showed her limitations horribly.

Kerr did indeed have a wide range butalso she was born into the right generation to display it, I think. Is she necessarily better than, say, Irene Dunne or Myrna Loy, who sometimes played similar parts? I could argue either way.

I also can’t recall a role offhand where Kerr played tough or bitchy, unless you count her role in A Woman of Substance on television. She almost manages it in From Here to Eternity, a part originally pegged for Joan Crawford, but even there she has no real rough edges, although she is very good. (This may be part of the reason why she was generally a co-star and not a stand- alone star – not forceful enough.)

Thank you to all who’ve commented so far.

[FauxPas]

One of the obituaries mentioned that Deborah Kerr came to the theater from classical dance. It even mentioned that she danced in the corps de ballet as a teenager at the Sadler's-Wells in "Prometheus". By her twenties though she had switched to spoken theater and film.

Interesting...

[papeetepatrick]

(Kind of surprised that Bette Davis’ name didn’t come up in your discussion – not many superstars who can play queens, whores, society girls, Southern belles, and barmaids with equal conviction.)

I think Bette Davis is a great actress, but I don't personally find her to be equally great in all her parts. This could be because some of the best ones simply stand out far and away beyond 'Petrified Forest' and 'Dark Victory' and 'Now, Voyager' for me. Always good, but truly great in 'All About Eve', 'Jezebel','The Letter', 'What Ever Happened to Baby Jane'. In things like 'The Star', she seems to be suffering from shortness of breath, and I think this may have been an inexpensive production in which some things were just not corrected. I didn't think she was quite right in 'Little Foxes' either.

She almost manages it in From Here to Eternity, a part originally pegged for Joan Crawford, but even there she has no real rough edges, although she is very good. (This may be part of the reason why she was generally a co-star and not a stand- alone star – not forceful enough.)

Here I think I would respectfully disagree, although I would include 'A Woman of Substance' as a good example of what I was asking; there have been a number of superb TV miniseries. She uses her mouth in 'From Here to Eternity' in a most surprisingly lewd way--that's a rough edge in my book, especially coming from an actress like Deborah Kerr, and the first time it appears, I was startled (and I'd definitely been around the block by the time I finally saw it). If Julie Andrews had worked on specific things like this instead of making a psychodrama out of 'changing her goody-goody image' and constantly talking about it, she might have made the same success in being truly passionate in roles like this--even in 'Beloved Infidel' Deborah Kerr is totally desirable, and that lascivious look in 'Eternity' is light-years more effective than that embarassing moment in 'S.O.B', which may be read as an admission of failure. And thank God Kerr got Karen Holmes instead of Joan Crawford (I didn't know this). Be grateful for large favours is all I can say. Of all major stars, I find her persona the heaviest and most leaden, her unhappiness always apparent under the haughty artificiality, although I do respect her very good work in the best period pulp--perfect in 'Flamingo Road' and 'Mildred Pierce'. She had been beautiful in the 30s, but all that narcissism and vanity don't work when you have no sense of humour; and then it began to metamorphose into the most remarkable hard and ugly look. That iconic beach scene Cristian so rightly loves is simply a nightmare-image if you imagine Joan Crawford in it.

One of the obituaries mentioned that Deborah Kerr came to the theater from classical dance..)

I was struck by this too, and it's not surprising that she has this and probably a few other things in common with Audrey Hepburn, although Kerr is the much more versatile actress.

[dirac]

And thank God Kerr got Karen Holmes instead of Joan Crawford (I didn't know this). Be grateful for large favours is all I can say.

Amen to that.

Also, I agree emphatically with all those who say the beach scene is NOT kitsch (but it would have been not only kitsch but camp with the 50s Crawford in it).

One of the obituaries mentioned that Deborah Kerr came to the theater from classical dance. It even mentioned that she danced in the corps de ballet as a teenager at the Sadler's-Wells in "Prometheus". By her twenties though she had switched to spoken theater and film.

Interesting...

FauxPas, a couple of the obituaries noted that she made the switch because she had doubts about her talent and was considered too tall (at five foot six, which tells you something about how standards in that department have changed over the years).

[dirac]

I think Bette Davis is a great actress, but I don't personally find her to be equally great in all her parts.

I didn’t mean to imply that, although I see that I did. She may not have been equally great in all of them, but she made a good fist at it. Even second tier Davis – in Of Human Bondage and the others you mention (although I think she is great in Dark Victory) is still awfully good.

I forgot to mention how good Kerr is in The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, a Powell-Pressburger curiosity from the war years. She plays three parts and she's lovely.

[papeetepatrick]

I didn’t mean to imply that, although I see that I did. She may not have been equally great in all of them, but she made a good fist at it. Even second tier Davis – in Of Human Bondage and the others you mention (although I think she is great in Dark Victory) is still awfully good.

No question about that. I think maybe it's that there is something so 'characterful' about her that when she is in very sensitive parts, it's hard to forget she's Bette Davis. I can, on the other hand, forget the Katharine Hepburn is Katharine Hepburn in 'Long Day's Journey..' and 'Lion in Winter', although I certainly cannot in 'Guess Who's Coming to Dinner' and 'On Golden Pond' or 'Stage Door Canteen' (!), in all of which I find her quite insufferable! And I can forget that Margo Channing is Bette Davis too, because the personas are so close, at least in my imagination. This concept interests me as I was thinking of it last night, finally watching 'The Mirror Has Two Faces'. I didn't expect to like it at all, and yet it is quite a wonderful film--not least because you can enjoy all the perfectly-cast actors (leads and supporting actors) both as the characters they play and as the celebrated actors they are. Streisand does look beautiful in this film, and using Lauren Bacall was just plain inspired. Ms. Streisand does know how to make a film.

[Anthony_NYC]

One of the obituaries mentioned that Deborah Kerr came to the theater from classical dance. It even mentioned that she danced in the corps de ballet as a teenager at the Sadler's-Wells in "Prometheus". By her twenties though she had switched to spoken theater and film.

Interesting...

It is. I wonder how much her ballet background had to do with her beautiful poise and musicality. When she lip-syncs to Marni Nixon's voice in "The King in I" and "An Affair to Remember," her carriage, the lift of the head, the exact timing of a step forward or a move away from the camera--it's exactly right, simply perfect, as if the sounds of the music were emanating right out of her as well as the emotions. She may have tired of playing prim Englishwomen (personally, I don't think prim is the right word), but I never tire of watching her in those roles.

(By the way, papeetepatrick, I have to say I adore Hepburn in "Summertime," for me one of her most touching performances.)

[Old Fashioned]

I was talking with a friend yesterday who is very knowledgeable about film and we both seemed to think that maybe Katharine Hepburn and Deborah Kerr had the biggest ranges (probably should include Vanessa Redgrave too), and he said he didn't think, though, that Kerr had ever played a bitch

I must disagree, respectfully, with you and your friend about Hepburn’s range; she had, IMO, one of the narrowest ranges of any of the great stars who were also distinguished actors. That’s not necessarily a Bad Thing, of course.

Dorothy Parker didn't think Hepburn had a great range, either.

Sorry for coming into the discussion late. I will remember Kerr for her roles in Quo Vadis and From Here to Eternity; I don't think I've seen anything else she has starred in. She was one of the great beauties of the 20th century, and probably one of the most overlooked.

[dirac]

When she lip-syncs to Marni Nixon's voice in "The King in I" and "An Affair to Remember," her carriage, the lift of the head, the exact timing of a step forward or a move away from the camera--it's exactly right, simply perfect, as if the sounds of the music were emanating right out of her as well as the emotions.

A beautiful observation, Anthony_NYC.

Sorry for coming into the discussion late

Better late than never, Old Fashioned. Always good to hear from you.

[papeetepatrick]

When she lip-syncs to Marni Nixon's voice in "The King in I" and "An Affair to Remember," her carriage, the lift of the head, the exact timing of a step forward or a move away from the camera--it's exactly right, simply perfect, as if the sounds of the music were emanating right out of her as well as the emotions.

A beautiful observation, Anthony_NYC.

"Hello, Young Lovers" is, in fact, so extraordinary and rare a moment--it's really operatic in the film, and perhaps more than any other solo song like that I know of in a musical comedy film--that almost all non-dubbed numbers in musical films pale by comparison. I think Nixon's voice was a good deal richer than it was later in 'West Side Story', and 'My Fair Lady', but most of us prefer this to the recording of Gertrude Lawrence. Known to be one of the greatest of actresses, you clearly had to be there to love her songs for 'The King and I'. It reminds me, despite the obvious stretches and differences, of Streisand's famous and sublime version of 'A Sleepin' Bee' in its expansiveness, voluptuousness (in the sense of fullness) and profundity.

[dirac]

A sad postscript. Peter Viertel survives his wife by three weeks.

‘White Hunter, Black Heart’ is a good book.

The author of at least 9 novels and 11 feature films, Mr. Viertel deftly used his movie work to fuel and enhance his literary output, and vice versa. He turned his experience as on-scene script doctor for the movie “The African Queen” (1951) into grist for a novel about the making of a very similar movie in Africa, “White Hunter, Black Heart” (1953). The novel, in turn, became a 1990 Clint Eastwood movie of the same name, for which Mr. Viertel helped write the screenplay.

[Gina Ness]

Oh, dear...I feel sad for their family. I just can't even imagine losing two loved ones practically within a month of each other. How difficult...

[papeetepatrick]

dirac--somehow I'd never seen 'Separate Tables', and just watched it. It's not quite as perfect as 'All About Eve', but is like it in that it has that stellar-casting phenomenon that you almost never can find--with unexpected combinations and presences of distinctly different kinds of actors.

But afterwards, what made me add to this thread was the year, 1958--while watching it I thought it surely could be not past 1951, even with Gladys Cooper looking as beautiful an aristocrat onscreen but perhaps even older than in 'My Fair Lady', which doesn't arrive till 1964; and the matter of Deborah Kerr's range: It is simply incredible that she managed to pull off this young troubled girl (meant to be no more than 24, surely)and 'Bonjour Tristesse' as the older woman in what is often thought of as one of Jean Seberg's few important films--in the same year and at the age of 37. And bear in mind this is 5 years after her sexy turn as Karen Holmes in 'From Here to Eternity'. I'm hard-pressed to think of other examples like this that actually worked--with that fascinating intertextuality of Burt Lancaster as handsome as ever, yet never exchanging but one bit of dialogue early on with Kerr. Her versatility is much like a pianist who can play Bach, Chopin, Boulez, Webern, Beethoven, Schumann, Mozart and Debussy equally well--maybe a bit like what Maurizio Pollini is still capable of doing.

[dirac]

My impression was that Sibyl was supposed to be about thirty or so, but I haven’t read the play in quite some time. (I’ve never seen the movie, although I keep meaning to.) On stage, the actress playing Ann Shankland also played Sibyl – it was Margaret Leighton in the original production, who would have been in her early thirties at the time, although the role had been slated for Vivien Leigh (with Olivier as Major Pollock and the other fellow whose name escapes me) and she would have been about forty. Of course, in the theatre these things matter far less. But Kerr was in the right age bracket at the time. I don’t doubt that she was good – she was one of those actresses who can look convincingly dowdy for one role and then turn around and stun you with her utter gorgeousness (unlike, say, Michelle Pfeiffer in Frankie and Johnny, where they tried to make her look plain with the deployment of barrettes; I suppose having her put on weight couldn’t be thought of, not that it would have helped much, although a woman who feels as bad about herself as Frankie does probably wouldn’t put in much time with a personal trainer. But I digress).

If you liked Separate Tables you might try a couple of other adaptations of Terence Rattigan to film. ‘The Browning Version’ with Michael Redgrave is one of my favorite movies ever, and he is stunning, one of the most moving performances I have ever seen. (I also like ‘The Deep Blue Sea’ with Vivien Leigh, although it is not well thought of in most quarters - not sure if it's on DVD, I saw it in a revival house years ago.)

[papeetepatrick]

My impression was that Sibyl was supposed to be about thirty or so, but I haven’t read the play in quite some time.

I spoke to someone else this morning about that, as I'd begun to realize that they were making Gladys Cooper up to look older than she was. Strangely, after I realized that Sibyl would be in her 30s, Kerr still had managed to seem about 28 in the role at most. You must see it. It's literally mind-boggling to go from Gladys Cooper to Rita Hayworth to Wendy Hiller to David Niven, and even Rod Taylor and Cathleen Nesbitt are not undistinguished.

I think what I have been so nagging about and probing for myself is that Kerr is one of very few Top Hollywood Stars who was not also a Hollywood character--not even as much as someone like Audrey Hepburn, who wouldn't live there except when working. That would be the only thing that would make her different from Bette Davis, whom you brought as also having a great range (which she certainly does), who was both eccentric character and great actress. And what you bring up about Michelle Pfeiffer is interesting: She is not quite able to give up her vanity, and it does have something to do with her. Pfeiffer a fine actress, but just short of profound. Then I think the other end of the Hollywood spectrum is those whose major interest for me is their Hollywood Character--Lana Turner, Joan Crawford--who have a few fine performances but it's their personas that are in the end what make them myths, scandalous behaviour, etc. I think both types extremely important in the whole sweep of something so truly earth-shaking culturally as Hollywood has been, though. But Kerr doesn't have to force herself NOT to pay attention to herself, it comes automatic. It seems a little less obvious with male actors, but possibly Erroll Flynn and Valentino and of course James Dean, to some degree Robert Mitchum, but he wasn't going to let anything make him 'go up', offstage or on.

If you liked Separate Tables you might try a couple of other adaptations of Terence Rattigan to film. ‘The Browning Version’ with Michael Redgrave is one of my favorite movies ever, and he is stunning, one of the most moving performances I have ever seen. (I also like ‘The Deep Blue Sea’ with Vivien Leigh, although it is not well thought of in most quarters - not sure if it's on DVD, I saw it in a revival house years ago.)

Definitely appreciate recommendations, which I wouldn't have known about. Michael Redgrave's performances are great treasures, and he is one of the great things about 'The Importance of Being Earnest', although nobody was going to interrupt Edith Evans fantastic behaviour.