"Have a Nice Time at the Ballet: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

[bart]

The Topic Title above is taken from the text of today's segment of the cartoon strip, Garfield (9/18/07).

Garfield's owner, dressed in a tux, is leaving for a date. He tells Garfield (cat) and the family dog:

Owner: "So long, boys ... be good tonight."

Garfield: "Have a nice time at the ballet!"

Door shuts.

Cat and dog burst out with a huge: "HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Door opens. Owner scowls.. Garfield and dog stare at the reader with an innocent "I didn't do anything" look.

Here's a Llink to the cartoon, which I assume will be posted today only: http://www.uclick.com/client/pbi/ga/

There's also a single-frame cartoon in our newspaper -- the Lockhorns -- in which the creator comes up with an endless way that a married couple can annoy and insult each other. One theme that pops up occasionally is Mrs. Lockhorn's insistence on attending the opera and ballet, and Mr. Lockhorn's scornful disgust of the whole thing.

Images of the pretentious Swan Queen, the effeminate prince, and the snooty, ridiculous people who adore them keep recurring in Americal pop culture.

What do you think about this? Do you have any good examples? And what about ballet's pop culture image in other countries? Here's your chance to vent at those times when your love of ballet made certain people look at you like you have two heads.

[Mashinka]

Nothing new I’m afraid, some thirty-five years ago I hailed a taxi to take me to the Opera Garnier in Paris and on dropping me off the driver said:

“You go to the ballet? That’s lots of fun” and as he drove off shouted back at me in French “pour les bourgeoisie”.

That was a really deadly insult for the person I was at the time and so unexpected as France is one of the few cultured countries left on earth- even more so then than now.

[SanderO]

Wife and I are the reverse. I love to attend ballet and opera, she feels it's "bourgeoise" (sp?) She prefers ballet, but often passes because she is too tired from work and I have to find someone else to join me... usually not a problem.

I always prefer what I am seeing and what I am not seeing. I feel that there are too few performances... that I can afford and have the time to see... so each one is very precious to me. I envy the ballet talkers who have seen many performances of the same ballet over many years and have deep and broad understanding of the work and the dancers who perform it. I don't think I will have the opportunity to acquire such wisdom.

I will say that one definitely get out of a theater experience what one is willing to invest in terms of knowledge. The more you know about a genre, the richer the experience will be. Ballet Talk has augmented my ballet experience enormously and I am indebted to the many unseen "geniuses" who share their wisdom so generously.

Does anyone know if there is an opera discussion group of a similar nature to Ballet Talk?

One other note about BT... the posters here are amazingly knowledgeable about all the arts and few seem to be completely narrowly focused on ballet or dance. I like that.

[papeetepatrick]

Nothing new I’m afraid, some thirty-five years ago I hailed a taxi to take me to the Opera Garnier in Paris and on dropping me off the driver said:

“You go to the ballet? That’s lots of fun” and as he drove off shouted back at me in French “pour les bourgeoisie”.

That was a really deadly insult for the person I was at the time and so unexpected as France is one of the few cultured countries left on earth- even more so then than now.

I was in Paris in that period, and they were still fresh from 1968, so that was pretty typical to be talking about people being bourgeois while being it oneself. I had a friend from Venezuela also studying there at the time and he was quite vehement when referring to one girl who lived with her mother on the Ile St. Louis as 'bourgeoise A L'EXTREME!' At Christmas, I went to London where one of my piano teachers lived during part of the year. She said 'I love Paris, but I don't like the French: They are so bourgeois...' She lived alone, except for servants, in four floors of mansion in St. John's Wood. There are many hard-leftist bloggers at this very moment who think ballet is much worse than bourgeois, but virtually fascist, because of the physical perfection being a bit 'unfair', not very equitable.

[Adam]

Although I certainly agree that there's a prejudice against ballet and dance in general, my friends and I think the point of the Garfield cartoon may be either (1) fat chance that they're going to behave while he's at the ballet, or (2) he looks silly in the tuxedo.

[Farrell Fan]

I agree with Adam and his friends -- specifically with their first interpretation. I also have a taxi story. A few years ago when I came to Washington for the Suzanne Farrell season, my cab driver from Union Station to the hotel asked me what I'd be doing in Washington. When I told him, he couldn't contain his laughter. "You came to Washington for the BALLET?!? HA HA Ho Ho Ha! Now it occurs to me that, like that in the Garfield cartoon, his laughter was open to more than one interpretation. On the general subject of what the pop culture thinks of ballet, my opinion is -- why should we care?

[SandyMcKean]

I'm with Farrel Fan.......Who cares?

I would rather be me....someone who loves the ballet and gets huge enjoyment from it.....than someone who probably knows nothing of ballet and doesn't know what they are missing. Why would I be insulted because a taxi driver, or someone else, makes a comment out of ignorance? Frankly, I think the "proper" response to such a remark is to laugh right along with them! We ballet-o-nuts are kind of strange when you think about it.

Besides it's easy to throw stones while living in a glass house. I am a macho male who does lots of backpacking, mountain climbing, and such; but I have never enjoyed any professional sports. I used to make similar condesending remarks to my friends who were into football or whatever. I distinctly remember me saying: "Ho, ho, ho, why would you go to a baseball game; you already know one of the 2 teams will win, ho, ho, ho!". I really sort of looked down my nose at those who loved professional sports. Well, then about 10 years ago my best friend, who happens to be a huge basketball nut, had me watch a basketball game on the TV while we were stuck in a condo with nothing to do while on a ski trip. He took the time to tell me what was happening and what he loved about the sport. I got hooked. I am now a fanatic fan of the NBA and talk b-ball to lots of folks......a world closed to me before because I was closed to it.

P.S. OK...in the interest of full disclosure, I will admit that the very moment I got hooked on b-ball in that condo was when they showed a slam-dunk in slow motion. I was instantly reminded of ballet because of a perfect body moving in a graceful motion with extreme skill and talent. I still see ballet in b-ball everytime I go.

[Paul Parish]

Well, funny you should mention basketball -- because it was Michael Jordan that made sportscasters have to start talking about ballet -- he was SO graceful, there was no other word they could think of.

There's a lot of RESPECT for ballet in pop culture, I think.

On the other hand, Garfield is barely popular any more. Neither is the Lockhorns. At least, they don't seem so to me.

[Mel Johnson]

As a longtime Garfield fan, let me explain some dynamics, here. Garfield and Odie (the dog) might enjoy the ballet, they might even comment knowledgeably about it, but Jon (the owner) is a dweeb, and won't even know which way to face in his seat.

[Dr. Coppelius]

"but Jon (the owner) is a dweeb, and won't even know which way to face in his seat."

Which he proves today, by making a fool of himself and make his date embarrassed.

http://www.uclick.com/client/pbi/ga/

Go swans!!!!!

Why not bring one of these to the ballet C'mon wilis, go and get him!

[Adam]

Actually, I just noticed that he's not yelling "Go Swans!" because he thinks that's what you do at the ballet. He's yelling "Go Swans!" because the girl kissed him for taking him to the ballet. In real life, when I take women I've been seeing to the ballet, they invariably end up telling me "I had no idea you were gay."

[bart]

Yes, Garfield is indeed an equal-opportunty purveyor of ridicule, sometimes affectionate (as here) and sometimes not.

Note the faces in the audience -- the ballet audience "demographics" if you will.

[Adam]

Well, he got that right - sure looks like the Center Parterre at the Met to me!

[bart]

The invitation is still out for any stories about anti-ballet cultural prejudice you've encountered.

It's nice to hear, so far, that the problem doesn't seem to be very real. But I wonder?

[printscess]

The invitation is still out for any stories about anti-ballet cultural prejudice you've encountered.

It's nice to hear, so far, that the problem doesn't seem to be very real. But I wonder?

My son has been dancing since he was 9 yrs old, he is 18 now and in a company.

Things were fine in elementary school. By the time he got to a public performing arts middle school things had changed. He was called every name you could think of and had been falsely accused of every gay sexual practice that middle schoolers could think of...and you'd be shocked as to how much middle schoolers can think of. His life had been threatened. I know this seems unbelieveable, coming from NYC, but it is true. All this because he was a ballet dancer. He transfered to a public performing arts middle school/high school where most students are already professional actors, singers and dancers. His life changed..no more threats. There is a lot of prejudice out there at every age when it comes to male ballet dancers.

One day, I ran into a mother of one of my son's friends. She had just seen my son in the Nutcracker with NYCB (9 yrs ago). She told me how great he was and how proud i must be. She then asked me if I was afraid that he would "turn" gay. I cannot believe that I was able to keep a straight face, but asked her why should I even be concerned? She said, "well, you know, he wants to be a ballet dancer". I asked her if she was afraid her son would turn gay as well. She asked me why should she be afraid, and I said, "well, you know, he wants to be a soccor player". I don't think she got it.

I would like to say that attending a ballet school such as SAB is a wonderful thing for a young boy. There is certainly power in numbers. It is amazing when you see 100 boys in one school of all ages, sexual orientation, supporting each other and cheering each other on. There has never been a time when my son didn't know other male ballet dancers, who were just like him...boys wanting to become ballet dancers. And through out his studies at SAB, he has learned to embrace others and their differences, regardless of their orientation.

[Adam]

At the risk of turning what's supposed to be a discussion of anti-ballet prejudice into a discussion of anti-gay prejudice, I can tell you that there is a similar assumption about ballroom dancers. I've had several women tell me that, although they love to go dancing, if a man asked them to go dancing, they would assume he's gay. They thus do not want the invitation to come from a man whom they date.

I don't get that attitude about Argentine tango, which I also dance. The general perception is that ballroom, ballet and Broadway are gay, and Argentine tango, swing and salsa are not. Must have something to do with starting with a "b".

Oh, and "I'm a Little Teapot"? If you're over 21, VERY gay.

[SandyMcKean]

I asked her if she was afraid her son would turn gay as well. She asked me why should she be afraid, and I said, "well, you know, he wants to be a soccor player". I don't think she got it.

Good for you! Well done! And no, I'll bet she didn't "get it". (I think the most distrubing thing she said was her use of the word "turn" as if being gay were a disease or something.)

Overall, I once again say "So what". There is huge prejudice in the world about everything imaginable. Small minds like printscess's son's friend's mother will insist on saying and acting in small ways. Better to teach one's kids to not be prejudice and small themselves, as well as help them realize that small views like this only hurt the one expressing them. Kids and adults both can laugh at these things (since these things are laughable).

Ballet hasn't cornered the market on smallness. Small people say prejudiced, ignorant things about: race. religion, patriotism, educational-level, class, accent, men's height, and apparently even ballroom dancing.......you name it. Best to rise above this nonsense and see the absurdity in the human condition (and teach one's kids to see it too), as opposed to getting insulted or hurt by smallness.

[papeetepatrick]

On the general subject of what the pop culture thinks of ballet, my opinion is -- why should we care?

The invitation is still out for any stories about anti-ballet cultural prejudice you've encountered.

It's nice to hear, so far, that the problem doesn't seem to be very real. But I wonder?

I think it's not so much anti-ballet in an overt sense, but rather an uncaring attitude--which has always been there, of course, but is growing, or at least the intensity of ballet and other classical and traditional art forms is being diluted. I'd agree with Farrell Fan like the others, if the 'why should we care' would have real results in thwarting barbarians, but it's more a matter of can the pop culture appropriate it? I go back and forth on what I think about this, but when I read about Second Life and real music coming from the Liverpool Orchestra and seen on a virtual screen, I can't keep from thinking that these things are eating up the real material aspect that make live performance something special.

http://www.liverpoolphil.com/content/homep...SecondLife.aspx

will explain it better, since I'm too exhausted thinking about the order of business on something I instincively loathe to go back to it just yet... Of course, the whole culture is going back and forth on many versions of this--right now the mode is that people don't want to do as much online shopping as they did before, thinking the computer makes it 'less fun' and more 'like work', but that has only stopped the rate of growth, not the deep dedication to 'brick-and-mortar' retail shops, and even if the rate has slowed, the actual growth has not. There are all sorts of combinations in here, thousands literally, but the direction usually tends these days to be toward the pop culture devouring everything in its wake, some more slowly than others.

[innopac]

I go back and forth on what I think about this, but when I read about Second Life and real music coming from the Liverpool Orchestra and seen on a virtual screen, I can't keep from thinking that these things are eating up the real material aspect that make live performance something special.

http://www.liverpoolphil.com/content/homep...SecondLife.aspx

I guess they are using SecondLife for promotional reasons. I just did google search and there is a "ballet company" on SL who have created a ballet call Olmannen. There is also a clip elsewhere on the web of the actual ballet. But don't you think these virtual performances by professionals and amateurs are more a curiosity than anything else?

[papeetepatrick]

There is also a clip elsewhere on the web of the actual ballet. But don't you think these virtual performances by professionals and amateurs are more a curiosity than anything else?

Unfortunately, I think they are a curiosity in the sense of what is currently still ruling the various serious fields, but for the future--even the near future--I don't. And this is related to the pop culture 'n' ballet thread, given that much youth culture is even described as 'media-driven.' If you look at it from the other side, those whose whole orientation is to pop and tech-oriented things, they definitely find classical music and ballet a curiosity, and do not see it at all in the ways those of us who have imbued our lives with it. And they are the ones in the majority--if we can hold our own at Ballet Talk, it may have an air of delightful exclusivity to it, but it is part of a tiny world and we can forget that (I wish we could forget it permanently, but I fail to be able to. The only real question may be 'is it even a tinier world now despite new regional companies, and is the pop culture growing by much larger leaps and bounds?' I think the answer is yes, but we'll see). To take an example, I took a young woman less than 30 to see 'Gypsy' with Patti Lupone this summer. By now, 'Gypsy' is pretty much in the classical echelon. She's very bright but not terribly educated in the serious Arts: I mentioned when I first reported on this sublime event, that Barbara Walters had been standing for a while pleasantly holding court while waiting for friends. My young companion found this to be the only truly thrilling thing of the entire evening. She did not care about 'Gypsy' or Patti Lupone or Sondheim or Laurents going onstage at all, but she saw Ms. Walters on television every day, so even though Walters is a generation beyond Lupone, that was what mattered to her--an icon from the pop culture of TV. And new technology always has at least some who stop using the original forms: There are plenty of Netflix subscribers who now never go to a movie house. And even if Second Life doesn't last, versions of it will appear and gather more and more attention until this sort of thing is as second nature as finding wifi when one is driving past buildings is for some, and has been for some time.

[printscess]

I asked her if she was afraid her son would turn gay as well. She asked me why should she be afraid, and I said, "well, you know, he wants to be a soccor player". I don't think she got it.

Good for you! Well done! And no, I'll bet she didn't "get it". (I think the most distrubing thing she said was her use of the word "turn" as if being gay were a disease or something.)

Overall, I once again say "So what". There is huge prejudice in the world about everything imaginable. Small minds like printscess's son's friend's mother will insist on saying and acting in small ways. Better to teach one's kids to not be prejudice and small themselves, as well as help them realize that small views like this only hurt the one expressing them. Kids and adults both can laugh at these things (since these things are laughable).

Ballet hasn't cornered the market on smallness. Small people say prejudiced, ignorant things about: race. religion, patriotism, educational-level, class, accent, men's height, and apparently even ballroom dancing.......you name it. Best to rise above this nonsense and see the absurdity in the human condition (and teach one's kids to see it too), as opposed to getting insulted or hurt by smallness.

Sandy,

It gave me such pleasure to say that to her LOL

[bart]

Thank you, Printcess, for that marvellous story and for the way you handled it. Bravo!

[printscess]

Thank you, Printcess, for that marvellous story and for the way you handled it. Bravo!

You are quite welcomed!

[cubanmiamiboy]

It is amazing when you see 100 boys in one school of all ages, sexual orientation, supporting each other and cheering each other on. And through out my son's studies at SAB, he has learned to embrace others and their differences, regardless of their orientation.

Printscess, from now on you're absolutely my hero!!! This world would su much better and easier with moms like you...

[ViolinConcerto]

I had one boss (for 5 years), about 15 years ago, who would repeat the same stupid joke every season opening night at NYCB (which was always on a Tuesday): "so who is going to toss out the first tutu?"

It's mildly funny -- while being really stupid -- the first time you hear it. He had a repetition compulsion.