Overrated movies

[papeetepatrick]

I didn't mean they weren't 'recognizably human', but they were not characters worthy of making anything other than a documentary about. They were all stupid, every one of them, and neither is the Hilary Swank character any brighter or more sensitive. She is indeed mentally disturbed, but not sympathetic because she is using dildoes on girls without their knowledge, posing as a boy. You asked, and this is the crucial detail, because the girls are also thereby raped, the Hilary Swank character is also a rapist; it is why the movie is dramatically worthless, is only a fictional version of a casehistory, because it does give the impression that you ought to sympathize with this 'hero/ine' somewhat--nothing is ever said about how the Brandon character is a rapist as well. I find it incredible that nobody ever sees this most obvious point.

One could sympathize with any kind of rapist, therefore, based on to what degree an 'appealing and insensitively misunderstood mental illness' seemed to apply or not, seemed to 'cause it to happen'. In the Brandon Teena documentary, some of these girls show their ignorance by still proclaiming, even with all the facts before them, that 'it was real'. These are not 'poor people characters', which can exist, and a good example of how these can be made theatrical are the Menotti operas like 'St. of Bleecker Street', 'The Medium', 'The Consul', or even 'Amahl and the Night Visitors.' He was sometimes called 'The Puccini of the Poor', and he was proud of it, knowing he did these things well. I just see 'Boys Don't Cry' as another TV-fact-based commodity, there's not a story there for a fictional or theatrical medium. Menotti's spiritualist, his political dissenters, his stigmata girl in Little Italy are poor people characters, 'Boys Don't Cry' is still just the poor people in Nebraska, never made into real characters. In fact, one of the most appalling results of the attempt to make Brandon somehow sympathetic is that--since she's not, being a rapist herself--the subsequent rapist-killers, while seeming piglike (and being it as well, to be sure), then can be seen in their crimes to have arrived at them logically--given their class and general personal habits to begin with. I don't mean that excuses what they did, but that's not important anyway, there are a million cases and we only know about this one because a movie with a serious and diseased flaw at its core made it famous.

[dirac]

One of the few movies that get the tone right IMO is "The Great Dictator".

I guess that just goes to show how people can differ in their definitions of the’ right’ tone and treatment, because then and now “The Great Dictator” has been criticized for making tone deaf jokes, however funny some of them are, about something too grim for them. (My opinion, Chaplin and Jack Oakie are superb, the rest of the movie is okay.)

....felt it was an unnecessary movie.

It was a good story very well told, never unnecessary in my book. Would that we had more such.

I don't think Spielberg knows how to make a boring movie

,

Try “Always.” Or rather, don’t.

[Davidsbündlertänze]

I'm not even going to apologize for my list beforehand. Sorry if some people can't handle (the truth).

THE DEATH OF MR. LAZARESCU

It's one of the WORST films I've ever seen & I couldn't believe how most critics RAVED about it.

ABERDEEN

Another highly praised film that I absolutely loathed. It was like a perverse ABC After School Special.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

Ugh! This film doesn't have a right to exist.

THE GODFATHER

APOCOLYPSE NOW

I want to punch these films in the face. Oh, if only that was possible!

EVERYTHING BY SPIELBERG

Actually, his films wouldn't be so *unbearable* if he cut out those cloying scores by JOHN WILLIAMS. Who am I kidding? They'd still be as bad as ever. (Somehow I always get tricked into watching a Spielberg film... I'll just save time and poke my eyes out now to prevent that from happening again.)

MOULIN ROUGE

STRICTLY BALLROOM

Baz Luhrmann is the Anti-Christ.

FORREST GUMP (or FOREST? who cares)

I'm not interested in George Dubya's life story. OK, I'm sorry, that was an unfair & cruel insult.....to FORREST GUMP.

AMERICAN BEAUTY

THE ENGLISH PATIENT

THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION

BREAKING THE WAVES

These films have already been mentioned, but it bears repeating how much they stink. THEY STINK!

DANCER IN THE DARK

LAST TANGO IN PARIS

CRIES AND WHISPERS

I *love* these films, so I must respectfully disagree with the posters who deem these films 'overrated.'

[dirac]

Thank you for posting, Davidsbündlertänze. I agree about the last three films you listed. They are all wonderful. I disagree about The Godfather, which gets better every time I see it, and I like many of

Spielberg's early movies. (As mentioned, I also like Schindler's List, but I would also say that's where the rot begins to set in.)

I didn't get the whole Lost in Translation business, either, and if someone who liked it would care to defend it, I would be sincerely interested in hearing why.

[canbelto]

I didn't get the whole Lost in Translation business, either, and if someone who liked it would care to defend it, I would be sincerely interested in hearing why.

Gonna have to agree with dirac that Godfather for me isn't overrated. It might be a victim of its own popularity, a kind of "a movie that popular can't possibly be any good."

As for "Lost in Translation," I loved that film, but I'm a huge fan of Bill Murray so ... I also thought it was a nicely bittersweet romance.

But speaking of overrated films, I don't agree, but here's an interesting article arguing that Rules of the Game is overrated.

[papeetepatrick]

I think I noticed a number of people thinking 'American Beauty' was overrated, but I don't. I don't care if wasn't perfect, hardly anything is. It has such brilliant moments, and many of them, that I think it a great film. 'Apocalypse Now' as well. I also like 'The Godfather' a lot, but don't think 'The Godfather II' is overrated either. They're both very fine, I think, even though I never really like Diane Keaton in anything where she gets tearful. I, too, love 'Dancer in the Dark' though--Bjork is magic and Deneuve is good in an unglamorous and uncharacteristic role. I should see it more than once, though, which I haven't. Have seen none of the big Spielberg things since 'Close Encounters'.

[dirac]

Briefly, I thought American Beauty was glib and shallow, and it made its points with sledgehammer subtlety. The treatment of the Annette Bening character had a very nasty, borderline misogynist edge even allowing for the satirical intent, although Bening herself was excellent and gave the character humanity with not much help from the script. The movie seemed to be saying that you break free of bourgeois constraints by reverting to adolescence, as far as I could make out. I didn't buy that.

Keaton was awful in both Godfather movies. She was not ready for them and was quite out of her depth.

[miliosr]

Add me to the list of people who can't stand Diane Keaton in The Godfather. In an otherwise pitch-perfect movie, she drives me up-and-over the wall with her blank-slate line readings and general whining (Miiiiiichael)! Ugh!!

(Strangely enough, I like her in The Godfather Part III, which will never qualify as an overrated movie.)

[papeetepatrick]

whining (Miiiiiichael)! Ugh!!

Yes! That's perfect, and I'd forgotten how I specifically hated that.

[Davidsbündlertänze]

Thanks dirac & hello to everyone: I've had a lot of fun reading the posts since I wrote the previous one.

I guess I was rather flippant in my last post - I was lazy and didn't want to get into any specifics.

Regarding Spielberg, I hate his films so very very much because from the outset you know exactly what's going to happen: every scene is laughably obvious, the dialogue cringe-worthy. This wouldn't be such a sin if there was BEAUTY or MAGIC in his filmmaking - Give me something uncanny for goodness sakes! It's all so saccharine-sweet that it becomes like a poison. His movies really should be chopped up & put back together into 30-minute sitcoms. Otherwise it's just terribly wasteful. (I don't know why he doesn't just get rid of the dialogue altogether. Then his films might be palatable.)

Somehow my sister forced me into watching A.I and CATCH ME IF YOU CAN - both on DVD. She's a sadist. Or maybe I'm a masochist.

Oh, I forgot THE TERMINAL. Pure trash. Every scene was vomit-inducing.

And AMERICAN BEAUTY - eh... so this is a film, really?? More like a Lifetime TV movie. Or a commerical for a rose petal company. I don't care that the movie wasn't perfect - perfection doesn't interest me. For me personally, I want to be 'bewitched' by films that I see. I want them to be cinematic, artistic, soulful. I enjoy it when a filmmaker creates a world and then I am seduced by it - if that world is happy or sad, realistic or unrealistic, I really don't care. I run away from 'message' films, but I love films that have meaning. IMHO, the "world" of AMERICAN BEAUTY was totally unconvincing. Phoney-baloney and dead inside.

Other films that I should have included in my overrated list/rant:

Both Almodovar:

ALL ABOUT MY MOTHER

TALK TO HER

Pina Bausch was the best part of TALK TO HER and I'm not crazy about Bausch. Still can't understand the plaudits for both films. BAD EDUCATION was such a superior film in every way (I think it's Almodovar's best film), & it should have won all those ridiculous film awards out there.

I'm looking forward to reading more of your opinions! Great thread, btw.

[SanderO]

I hardly go to the "movies" anymore because I find most of them are using stereotypes to such an extent that the movies are more like cartoons. This is especially true of American made movies which seem to be completely driven by casting agents who have given us all these icons or character types.

But perhaps this is more a reflection of who Americans are - we copy and want to be like the Jones so we wear the same clothes, drive the same cars, have the same interest in pop culture and so on. Bernays and Madison Avenue has fashioned us into consumers of mass culture and image and it makes money for the corporations and it now makes "use' feel like we belong. Movies are just part of this process.

Foreign made films some times escape this trap of dealing in stereotypes, regardless of the story being told, but this is hard to escape because using such well established and recognized "motifs" is a form of non verbal communication - short hand. Advertising is the epitome of this, ain't it? Ballet is not immune from this either, with their casting and cartoon like roles and tragic comic story lines.

We see them at home on the small screen for a fraction of the cost when we have nothing better to do. And when you shut them off or fall asleep you don't feel bad or have to get home.

[papeetepatrick]

And AMERICAN BEAUTY - eh... so this is a film, really?? More like a Lifetime TV movie. Or a commerical for a rose petal company.

Yes, I thought so, and like the rose petals because they're so nauseating and remind one of the difference between funereal florists and wild roses.

perfection doesn't interest me.

Well, it sure interests me, it's just that it's not realistic to expect it in many domains unless one wants to make oneself miserable.

For me personally, I want to be 'bewitched' by films that I see. I want them to be cinematic, artistic, soulful.

I'd say 'Last Year at Marienbad was 'cinematic' and 'artistic' but not 'soulful'. That is not what you get with Robbe-Grillet, although you may with Resnais sometimes (as in 'Muriel' and in the 2003 'Pas sur le Bouche', a sublime film of an old operetta--ridiculous that this didn't at least get more than a festival showing, given that many inferior French films do). On the other hand, within its own world, it was perfect. Robbe-Grillet's novels are often like that too.

I didn't care about 'American Beauty' as message, but it seemed to have this sort of hallucination of traditional society falling apart at the seams, with violent slippages from the very beginning--but we saw the old and the new side by side, uneasily going back and forth one to the other. I don't see it as 'solving' bourgeois stodginess by going back to the id or whatever, but rather showing a good number of symptoms one after the other of budding putrefaction, and that inevitably includes a lot of id-recall. Okay, so maybe it was perfect, what do I know. At least the movie itself didn't go back to the id, like 'Inland Empire' does. This last film is very overrated among alternative types as far as I am concerned and I can't stand it, Laura Dern emoting and all the rest. Only the Gypsy Woman made it worth the pain, what a camp.

Anyway, I like 'soulful' too, don't get me wrong, and last night watched the old 'Member of the Wedding' with Harris, Waters, and DeWilde. I'd only read the novel and seen a TV production, but this was the gem, with some scenes uncannily alive--and heartbreaking.

[dirac]

Pina Bausch was the best part of TALK TO HER and I'm not crazy about Bausch. Still can't understand the plaudits for both films. BAD EDUCATION was such a superior film in every way (I think it's Almodovar's best film), & it should have won all those ridiculous film awards out there.

I agree. I thought Talk to Her was overrated, and while I appreciate Almodovar’s willingness to push the envelope I was inclined to draw the line at raping coma victims. I too thought the excerpts from Bausch were excellent. (I loved Bad Education, too.)

Somehow my sister forced me into watching A.I and CATCH ME IF YOU CAN - both on DVD. She's a sadist. Or maybe I'm a masochist.

I would be willing to make a case for A.I., which I thought was fascinating although ultimately unsuccessful, and a film anyone following Spielberg’s work should see. There’s not much to say about Catch Me If You Can, is there? (One thing I did enjoy was the evocation of a time when air travel was glamorous and fun and an occasion to dress up for.)

This wouldn't be such a sin if there was BEAUTY or MAGIC in his filmmaking - Give me something uncanny for goodness sakes! It's all so saccharine-sweet that it becomes like a poison.

You know, I think there is beauty and magic in E.T., and a real sweetness as opposed to the sticky-gooey kind. Then you have Peter Pan, which tries for something similar and is horrid.

Add me to the list of people who can't stand Diane Keaton in The Godfather. In an otherwise pitch-perfect movie, she drives me up-and-over the wall with her blank-slate line readings and general whining (Miiiiiichael)! Ugh!!

(Strangely enough, I like her in The Godfather Part III, which will never qualify as an overrated movie.)

I thought she was passable in the first Godfather. It was in Part II, where Kay has a more central role, that her deficiencies really hurt. I think her nadir was the big “I had an ABORTION!” confrontation with Pacino.

Yes, she was one of the few good things about Part III, which really is bad, isn’t it?

I guess I was rather flippant in my last post - I was lazy and didn't want to get into any specifics.

That’s okay – your post was fun to read. Sometimes we all have to get this sort of thing off our chests, and it will help you cope the next time Spielberg totes home another truckload of Oscars.

I didn't care about 'American Beauty' as message, but it seemed to have this sort of hallucination of traditional society falling apart at the seams, with violent slippages from the very beginning--but we saw the old and the new side by side, uneasily going back and forth one to the other.

I think that’s definitely the effect AB was trying for, and achieved occasionally, but for me its vision of the New was rather banal – for instance, when Spacey has his scene with

‘Brad’ at the office, you know immediately that the fellow is superficial and hollow because his name is Brad. You know that Bening has surrendered to the conventional because she listens to “Bali Ha’i” at dinner. That kind of thing.

[4mrdncr]

Really quickly becuz it's late and i'm tired, can't think of the many films I want to add now, and haven't read the entire thread. However...

Totally agree about Spielberg being saccharine and predictable, and the only films he's done that I enjoyed were ...

JAWS because it's funny, and I love the 3 Musketeers on the boat and the fact he made a movie out of bad weather and a busted robot shark.

EMPIRE of the SUN, because it's the only film he's made with children I can stand to watch. (Malkovich, Richardson also help).

SCHINDLER'S LIST - because of the TECHNIQUE (the different film stocks, angles, framing etcetc.)

But don't blame Spielberg for dialogue--he didn't write the scripts, he just has to make them work. And sometimes he tries hard, but fails miserably; and sometimes he overcomes the silliness and banality and tone-deafness of the author(s) and makes something visually stunning if not exactly listenable.

John Williams is predictable too, but so are Jerry Goldsmith, and John Barry, and Hans Zimmer (did we catch all those quotes from Holst's Mars and Goretski's 3rd Symphony in Gladiator?) and Horner.

Totally agree about Diane Keaton in Godfather films.

[dirac]

But don't blame Spielberg for dialogue--he didn't write the scripts, he just has to make them work.

Spielberg often does have a hand in the writing, and even when he doesn’t have an actual credit a director of his stature controls every aspect of the filming, including the shaping of the script. (An exception being a film such as “Minority Report” where Spielberg was essentially a hired gun; in such a case it’s the star, Tom Cruise in that instance, who has at least as much say in what gets on the screen.)

EMPIRE of the SUN, because it's the only film he's made with children I can stand to watch. (Malkovich, Richardson also help).

The first half of Empire of the Sun is some of the best stuff he’s ever done. I always thought Spielberg was

...... Godfather for me isn't overrated. It might be a victim of its own popularity, a kind of "a movie that popular can't possibly be any good."

I think you’re right, canbelto. I remember in Day for Night one of the running jokes is that every theatre is showing The Godfather. It just made me think, “ Those were the days.” If today’s blockbusters were half as good as that, I’d be a happy camper.

As a matter of fact, speaking of overrated movies, if I had to choose between seeing Day for Night again and The Godfather, I would choose the latter without losing any sleep over it.

Thank you for the link to the article about The Rules of the Game, canbelto. You could make a case that the film is overrated, but I don’t think that article quite does it. Much of it seems to consist of a flippant retelling of the plot, and I don’t agree with the writer on several crucial points. I don’t think Renoir loves Octave too much, to take only one example – in fact I think in some ways Octave is the villain of the piece, intentionally so.

[Neryssa]

May I join in?

The Departed - not Scorcese's best but better than

Crash - this won "Best Picture?"

Mystic River

The Shining

I've never understood why people thought "The Shining" was so "scary." OK, maybe the lady in the bathtub was creepy...

Neryssa

[dirac]

Neryssa, greetings. We had a spirited debate about 'Crash' the year it came out - if you do a search with 'Crash' and 'Brokeback Mountain' some of the posts are likely to turn up. I agree with you, but it had its defenders. I don't think it's a truly terrible movie -- just not that good. The reviews were actually quite mixed, as I remember.

I'd have to disagree with you about 'The Shining.' In fact, I think it's a classic. It scared me witless when I first saw it, and those little girls still spook me every time. On certain days I'd even be tempted to call it Kubrick's best film, with the possible exception of Dr. Strangelove. A lot of people have strong and opposing reactions to the movie, though.

[Davidsbündlertänze]

Gonna have to agree with dirac that Godfather for me isn't overrated. It might be a victim of its own popularity, a kind of "a movie that popular can't possibly be any good."

THE GODFATHER's popularity didn't affect my opinion of it - it was the film itself (and Al Pacino). When I finally watched THE CONFORMIST and LAST TANGO IN PARIS - already knowing how "popular" both films were - I was not disappointed. Both films exceeded expectations, and then some.

Well, it sure interests me, it's just that it's not realistic to expect it in many domains unless one wants to make oneself miserable.

Actually, perfection does interest me: things that I happen to love...I find these things "perfect". If something is flawless, unblemished - that doesn't necessarily mean it's interesting, or that I will like or derive joy from it. I'm not interested in perfection the way it's usually used: "The perfect house", "The perfect car", etc... you know, as in the Stepford definition, in which every wrinkle is botoxed, every liver spot lasered, every flaw "fixed".... That poem by Gerard Manley Hopkins (can't remember exactly): glory be to God for dappled things - that's my idea of "perfection." Ah, it's so early in the morning, so forgive me for being muddled & for the wild punctuation. Don't know if I made any sense at all.

I'd say 'Last Year at Marienbad was 'cinematic' and 'artistic' but not 'soulful'.

I love that film. Two out of three is fine in my book. The film is not 'soulful', but I meant 'soulful' not just in the story/characters - rather in the filmmaker & his/her 'vision.'

[i didn't care about 'American Beauty' as message, but it seemed to have this sort of hallucination of traditional society falling apart at the seams

I thought it was a pale rip-off of BLUE VELVET, the touchy-feely-glossy version. If I recall correctly, in BV there are red roses in the beginning of the film. No floating plastic bags, though. I bet Lynch regretted not having that after seeing AMERICAN BEAUTY.

There’s not much to say about Catch Me If You Can, is there

Yep. You said it.

John Williams is predictable too, but so are Jerry Goldsmith, and John Barry, and Hans Zimmer (did we catch all those quotes from Holst's Mars and Goretski's 3rd Symphony in Gladiator?) and Horner

I never saw GLADIATOR, and I've heard of those film composers but I can't match them to their films. I singled out Williams because I grew up watching the Boston Pops and he always creeped me out. A quiet man. But also menacing. His podium manner was like Hannibal Lecter.

And then there are those film scores:

SUPERMAN love theme = bastardized pas de deux from Stravinski's APOLLON MUSAGETE.

SCHINDLER'S LIST = warmed-over Mahler's FIRST SYMPHONY with extra cheese

A.I. = his quasi-techno take on DER ROSENKAVALIER

I can just picture him, rubbing his hands together, looking for his next victim.

But don't blame Spielberg for dialogue--he didn't write the scripts, he just has to make them work. And sometimes he tries hard, but fails miserably; and sometimes he overcomes the silliness and banality and tone-deafness of the author(s) and makes something visually stunning if not exactly listenable.

It's a collaboration but he's still the director. He gets most of the glory if the films are good - and if they stink, he should get most of the blame.

I'd have to disagree with you about 'The Shining.' In fact, I think it's a classic. It scared me witless when I first saw it, and those little girls still spook me every time. On certain days I'd even be tempted to call it Kubrick's best film, with the possible exception of Dr. Strangelove.

dirac, i agree 100%. i've always loved the film & i think it's his masterpiece. love dr. strangelove too. 'Merkwürkdigliebe' - haha! that always cracks me up!

I've never understood why people thought "The Shining" was so "scary." OK, maybe the lady in the bathtub was creepy...

it never quite scared me like a typical slasher film - and i don't think he intended it to be just 'scary' - but it still unsettles me because i feel like i'm being hypnotized & i've always enjoyed a good creepy ghost (reincarnation) story...and it's a father trying to chop up his family & he blames them for his failures... & they're stuck in a cavernous lodge in the middle of winter....isolated....and there's the wave of blood from the elevator, and then the rose petals fly out from her shirt - oops. wrong film.

nyressa: have you seen THE INNOCENTS (film version of The Turn of the Screw with Deborah Kerr), THE OTHERS...or Britten's opera THE TURN OF THE SCREW? these are all very scary imo....brrrr! i'm getting the chills just thinking about it!

[Ray]

Has anyone pored over "The Best 1,000 Movies Ever Made" published in the NY Times yesterday?

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/movies/1000best...&ei=5087%0A

How many overrated movies are on that list, I wonder? I haven't gotten passed the Bs, but did see Beverly Hills Cop and Breakfast Club!

[Neryssa]

Neryssa, greetings. We had a spirited debate about 'Crash' the year it came out - if you do a search with 'Crash' and 'Brokeback Mountain' some of the posts are likely to turn up. I agree with you, but it had its defenders. I don't think it's a truly terrible movie -- just not that good. The reviews were actually quite mixed, as I remember.

I'd have to disagree with you about 'The Shining.' In fact, I think it's a classic. It scared me witless when I first saw it, and those little girls still spook me every time. On certain days I'd even be tempted to call it Kubrick's best film, with the possible exception of Dr. Strangelove. A lot of people have strong and opposing reactions to the movie, though.

My apologies, dirac, for not searching for "Crash" before I posted. I detested the final scenes of "Crash" and the "music" that accompanied those scenes. It viewed like a television movie. Also, it is difficult for me to respect any film that casts Tona Danza even in a cameo.

I am always the exception regarding "The Shining." I am well-acquainted with Kubrick's career but I never understood his fascination with the basic story. I have seen the film numerous times and I am always looking for *something* that isn't there. Have you seen "The Making of The Shining" (1980), a short feature directed by his daughter, Vivian Kubrick? Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall were quite strung out on at least 1 "substance" during the production, and I just thought Nicholson's performance was over the top.

Davidsbündlertänze: Oh yes, I have seen "The Innocents"; in fact, I bought the DVD a couple of years ago. It is probably my favorite film in this genre because one can interpret it on several levels. I think it is superior to some modern remakes because the ghosts or apparitions are, for the most part, seen briefly and at a distance. And the music, sound effects, and stunning cinematography made the apparitions and children's precocious behavior even more chilling and disconcerting.

Neryssa

[papeetepatrick]

I am always the exception regarding "The Shining." I am well-acquainted with Kubrick's career but I never understood his fascination with the basic story. I have seen the film numerous times and I am always looking for *something* that isn't there. Have you seen "The Making of The Shining" (1980), a short feature directed by his daughter, Vivian Kubrick? Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall were quite strung out on at least 1 "substance" during the production, and I just thought Nicholson's performance was over the top.

You have to read the book to understand Kubrick's masterful changes. This is the only Stephen King book I've ever read, and that will be enough. The ending is pure Disney claptrap, with the little boy and mother and the Scatman Crothers character all happy by a burbling brook; the Overlook Hotel has itself been blown up in cheap Halloween season movie style. In the film Crothers gets an axe in the chest, Shelley and the little boy just barely and very furtively escape, and the house is left with its ghosts of Mr. Grady, the little girls, the rich old nymphomaniac and her young stud, and now Jack's photos with 'till We Meet again' sung to them, as he joins the continued hauntings. I find it amazing that Kubrick could revamp this pulpy story so that it remains scary after you leave the theater, and the mother and child could never have fully reoriented themselves to normal life again. I mean, what could they even do about the hotel, call the police and say it was full of ghosts that had killed Scatman and Jack, who had tried to kill her first? The best horror tales end with evil triumphing, at least to a degree, but King hasn't that kind of guts. This is one of the few films I've seen that were much better than the novel--and I suppose this usually happens when the novel is Grade B or less, as with 'Flamingo Road' (play) and 'Letter to Three Wives' (I'm guessing to some degree on this last one, a Cosmopolitan Mag serial, I believe). Only the Masterpiece Theater version of J.B. Priestley's 'Lost Empires' has actually improved upon an otherwise superb novel, at least among things I've seen. Although 'Member of the Wedding' does equal the excellent McCullers original, which I think 'Reflections in a Golden Eye' comes close to doing as well, but that's been some time since I've seen it (think Liz is perfect in it). Now that I think of it, McCullers has been one of the most fortunate in filmed versions of her beautiful and deeply moving works, and it may have to do with their lending themselves to film treatment, but I like even 'Ballad of the Sad Cafe' (most don't) and 'The Heart is a Lonely Hunter' as well (more do).

As for the substances, thanks for the information-they clearly did their business well, just as the martinis William Holden drank to loosen up for the dance with Kim Novak in 'Picnic' did theirs.

[Neryssa]

I am always the exception regarding "The Shining." I am well-acquainted with Kubrick's career but I never understood his fascination with the basic story. I have seen the film numerous times and I am always looking for *something* that isn't there. Have you seen "The Making of The Shining" (1980), a short feature directed by his daughter, Vivian Kubrick? Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall were quite strung out on at least 1 "substance" during the production, and I just thought Nicholson's performance was over the top.

You have to read the book to understand Kubrick's masterful changes.

I agree with you here. I did read "The Shining." And I remember Stephen King's own television adaptation of "The Shining," which was even worse than the novel. I think that was the one time that I appreciated Kubrick's improvements - but there was much to improve.

Neryssa

[dirac]

No floating plastic bags, though. I bet Lynch regretted not having that after seeing AMERICAN BEAUTY

I doubt it. I thought that floating plastic bag sequence was the most irritating thing in the movie. You had to watch and watch and watch, with the director using everything short of semaphore to signal: “Look at this. This is amazing. This is really special.” Urrrggghhh.

My apologies, dirac, for not searching for "Crash" before I posted.

No apologies necessary – how could you know? If you look and can’t find anything let me know and I’ll do some rooting around.

the house is left with its ghosts of Mr. Grady, the little girls, the rich old nymphomaniac and her young stud, and now Jack's photos with 'till We Meet again' sung to them, as he joins the continued hauntings.

One of the best closing shots ever.

Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall were quite strung out on at least 1 "substance" during the production, and I just thought Nicholson's performance was over the top.

Well, in the seventies everybody was strung out on something, pretty much. Martin Scorsese made some of his best pictures high as a kite. Nicholson is ‘over the top,’ yes, and it’s a watershed performance for him, foreshadowing lots of Wild Man stuff we would see from him in future. But I think it works. The remoteness of Kubrick’s control-freak style, which could hurt him when he was dealing with normal human situations, works beautifully here. I don’t know anyone else who could have given the hotel its peculiar life and transformed what could have been a very ordinary haunted house pic. I could blather on at some length about Kubrick’s masterly use of visuals, sound, and music (nice change from John Williams, eh, Davidsbundlertanze?) but I won’t bore you further except to note that Danny Lloyd gives one of the best performance by a child I’ve ever seen. And Shelley Duvall, normally an actor I can’t stand, is just right.

I don’t mean to try to persuade you, Neryssa – we all have our preferences. I just think it’s such a great movie. Thanks for mentioning the movie about the making of the film -- BTW – I haven’t seen it.

Thanks for the list, Ray. I’ll have to take a look at it. “Best 1,000 Movies” is casting a pretty wide net and it wouldn’t surprise me if there a number of less than great movies listed.

[dirac]

And I remember Stephen King's own television adaptation of "The Shining," which was even worse than the novel.

I've never actually read the book, although I might get around to it one of these years.

[papeetepatrick]

No floating plastic bags, though. I bet Lynch regretted not having that after seeing AMERICAN BEAUTY

I doubt it. I thought that floating plastic bag sequence was the most irritating thing in the movie. You had to watch and watch and watch, with the director using everything short of semaphore to signal: “Look at this. This is amazing. This is really special.” Urrrggghhh.

These are perfectly understated compared to Lynch's endless noir lamps on nightstands in hooker motel rooms in 'Inland Empire'. And they are all cleaned and polished, as if for collectors of noir memorabilia. Prostitutes may keep their 'little apartments' (Raymond Chandler's term in 'The Little Sister') clean, but I don't think they usually have the Tiffany version; and there must be a hundred stills of these silly noir lamps. In most disussions of 'Inland Empire', as opposed to 'Mulholland Drive', the hipster enthusiasts do not even know that Inland Empire is a SoCal region containing not only Pomona, discussed from the Hollywood Walk of fame in the 'searing' (and tedious and boring and most hateful) final terrible Laura Dern (as abused David Lynch actress) scenes, but Palm Springs as well. The latter is not mentioned as I recall, but the early Jeremy Irons sequence as director seems rotten with self-congratulatory Palm Springs arriviste attitude. I think Lynch should degenerate further now, into something that might be called 'The Valley Hunt Club' or maybe he could do a documentary on Mark Taper as he gets more and more effete. Perhaps we'll see if the very oldest money can be penetrated and shown in sewer form.

I once looked at a 1000 Greatest, but that was enough, because too large a number for it to be interesting. I was pleased to hear that the Village Voice had done a 100 Greatest once, and they had included Russ Meyer's 'Beyond the Valley of the Dolls', which is very funny and starred Dolly Read, widow of Dick Martin, who died last week.