Parma

Thanks for that link, "charming" is the exact word for that illustration. Love it.

Sandik, you sound somewhat "old school" in these matters, as am I. Also, I love your use of the phrase "a happy choice", I use it when appropriate, myself I love using somewhat archaic words and phrases as long as they're at least somewhat self-explanatory.

Kathleen, that is absolutely still true. I forgot to say--to further complicate matters, the pronunciation for "Ms" can also sound like like the southern pronunciation for either "Mrs" or "Miss" (Mizz), so you just have to know, if you need to know. As a matter of fact, it's my personal belief that that pronunciation gets people out of a pickle when they don't know, lol. It works for all three! And to even further complicate matters, there are just no hard-and-fast rules about these things, especially nowadays when people might be either modern about it the matter, or "old-school". For instance, some ministers of the church might be known as "Pastor First Name", when others would only ever be called "Pastor Last Name". It doesn't really depend on age, though that's as sure an indicator as any.

I just can't help myself from dredging up this old thread, because I didn't see something here which is still quite common in the south-referring to a woman of a certain age as "Miss" whether she was married or unmarried. For instance, my mother-in-law----she was obviously married to my husband's father before she was widowed, but from the time I met her until the day she died, she was "Miss Gloria" to me and anyone who didn't call her "Mother" or "Aunt", etc, or her intimate friends of her own generation who called her "Gloria". That's the case with a lot of older women here, whether they have been married or not. What I've never noticed before my own eyes is when the transition occurs-when they become old enough to be referred to as "Miss Whatever" by most of the people who know them who aren't directly related and of their own generation. I've never known a woman in person who was referred to as "Ms". Goodness but I'm dating myself! For that matter, I am already "Miss Melanie" (my first name) to my younger nephews' friends, lol. I have been married for over 30 years, but I'm not "Mrs" anything, I'm "Miss Melanie". It seems to indicate a familiarity combined with respect. (Oh, I chose "Parma" when I signed up because it can be either ham or violets, and somedays you just don't which you are )

Thanks volcanohunter. I'm going to go watch this clip to notice the arm positions. I noticed the Hindu, etc, but didn't know that about the English, Russian, etc arm positions, it will be interesting to notice them.

Quiggen, I meant to ask you--what was the reference to English ballet? I'd like to be able to look for it next time I watch. Thank you!

Thanks, and I do apologise for going so far off-topic I've lurked here for a few years, I'm waaayyy out of my depth discussing dance with you all, but I learn a lot from reading your discussions

Ha, you have a point re "Lady In The Dark". For that matter, I didn't like Fred & Ginger together so much in their final, reunion film, "Barkleys Of Broadway". It seemed to me that Ginger had pretensions by then, not just in the movie either. And her voice when she plays that Sarah Bernhardt role!!! But in all the RKO teamings, they were just perfection together. (It goes against the grain, but my favorite is "Follow The Fleet"-I love their "dance competition" number, "Let Yourself Go", and the casino number "Let's Face The Music And Dance"--love that dramatic Art Deco feel and especially the ending).

I would substitute "ambitions" for "pretensions" - Kelly was very much a proselytizer for dance and ballet, although the latter was not his metier (as he knew). This was a time when musical comedy was beginning to aim for something different. I don't think his reputation as a dancer will ever be where it once was, right by Astaire's, and that's appropriate, but Kelly's accomplishments should not be overlooked. I like "An American in Paris" better than I used to do. It gets off to a dubious start with "By Strauss" but it recovers.Lerner's script is one of the rare instances where a writer won an Oscar for the script of a musical. The things that were unusual and even revolutionary about it are things we now take for granted. As mentioned previously, the "ballets" of the period generally suck - even the "good" ones, like "The Girl Hunt" in The Band Wagon aren't very good. For the most part -- although one of Kelly's best numbers is the "Alter Ego" routine from "Cover Girl." I can live with "The Girl Hunt" because Fred seemed to be mocking the whole thing-film noir, "balletic" dance which wasn't ballet, the grandiosity, etc. But I'll admit that even the Great Astaire never seemed comfortable in balletic-style dances, and after he had the clout in Hollywood to choreograph his own dances, I wonder why he did them, when he said himself that ballet wasn't his strong suit by any stretch (he also said that neither was straight tap, especially after that gorgeous "Begin The Beguine" number he did with Eleanor Powell-I couldn't really see it, I look for his weakness every time I watch that number, which is a lot. I will say it's the only time I ever saw him actually show just the teeniest bit that he was having to "work for it" to keep up with a partner). I love Kelly's "Slaughter On 10th Ave", as much because I love the music as anything. I will always believe that Ginger made the best partner for Fred Astaire as a team, even though she wasn't at all the most gifted or best-trained one. She followed him perfectly. I wish there was film of him dancing with his sister, who was said by everyone, including him, to be the more talented sibling. I can hardly imagine it! Sorry, I brought Mr Astaire up and now I'll have to make myself shut up about him

Oops, on the quote thing-sorry!

I would substitute "ambitions" for "pretensions" - Kelly was very much a proselytizer for dance and ballet, although the latter was not his metier (as he knew). This was a time when musical comedy was beginning to aim for something different. I don't think his reputation as a dancer will ever be where it once was, right by Astaire's, and that's appropriate, but Kelly's accomplishments should not be overlooked. I like "An American in Paris" better than I used to do. It gets off to a dubious start with "By Strauss" but it recovers.Lerner's script is one of the rare instances where a writer won an Oscar for the script of a musical. The things that were unusual and even revolutionary about it are things we now take for granted. As mentioned previously, the "ballets" of the period generally suck - even the "good" ones, like "The Girl Hunt" in The Band Wagon aren't very good. For the most part -- although one of Kelly's best numbers is the "Alter Ego" routine from "Cover Girl."

I've always wondered if the dance sequence "Stereophonic Sound" which Fred Astaire did with Janis Paige in "Silk Stockings", was a bit of ribbing at some of Kelly's pretensions, with the lines about "Bali ballet" and "a dancer's gotta throw his back out and come sliding on his knees". I always get a giggle out of that song. Fred Astaire was such a tasteful dancer who modestly described himself as "just a song and dance man".

I apologise, I didn't even notice! I was doing a search for more info on this riveting ballerina, and your thread came up

I adore her. She certainly isn't the most refined or elegant dancer, but when she dances, that personality just sucks me right into the story or the mood, and her technique is certainly good enough so that I don't spend the time noticing that a foot isn't perfectly pointed instead of watching the whole package. She seems to put her all into every dance, she believes in what she's dancing. I love the stories about her-how her fellow dancers had to hold her by the skirt so she wouldn't race onto the stage too soon in her overwhelming desire to dance, how she danced herself into the orchestra pit in her extravagance, how she fractured her leg in a ballet once but continued until the end, then fainted from pain at the curtain call. She told how Stalin called her "dragonfly" and preferred that she dance in thin skirts rather than a tutu. In WWII, she went all over the front to dance for the troops. I wish there were more film footage of her dancing. I'm surprised she never toured in the West, as she was highly placed in the local Communist Party and I would think would have been trusted. Maybe they didn't think her style would be appreciated in the West.

Anyhow, didn't Russia during the Soviet era have its own period of emphasising athleticism over artistry, with dancers such as Olga Lepeshinskaya? I actually like her, her explosiveness and strength are amazing to watch, but when I watch her make a run into a "fish leap" (is that the correct term for when they do backwards almost blind leaps into the partner's arms?), it's more reminiscent of gymnastic floor exercises than ballet. But I still love her, she's just a charismatic and fascinating dancer.