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Tolkien and ballet


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#16 Mel Johnson

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 04:14 PM

Now for the truly hardcore round-the-bend serious Tolkienian:

http://www.tolkiensociety.org/

#17 julip

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 11:04 PM

...please excuse me while I get all kinds of excited about the Tolkien thread, my true geekdom shines through on this topic...

Indeed, as Major Mel was pointing out...the Tale of Luthien and Beren has so much dance in it. I was thrilled out of my mind when Butler Ballet was going to do it this year, then...alas, it had to be changed. I think I shed a few tears over that one.

But on the subject or Orlando Bloom. I think I am the only person in the world who didn't enjoy his physicality in the role. He reminded me of the classical ballet dancers who cannot succed in the more contemporary roles because they aren't grounded and they have no sense of weight. I know, I know...he's an elf, they are light on their feet. But I always imagined that because of hundreds of years that they live, that they would be more grounded into the earth and more in tune with it with their physicality...instead of just floating above it. Ahhh, finally...my two cents worth on that topic. All of my fellow geek friends look at me with blank stares when I start talking about that.

#18 Mel Johnson

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 04:30 AM

I think that there is a confusion between the ways of Elves and Ents. Elves are "in this world, but not of it". They seem not to be connected to Middle-Earth, even if they dwell in it. They are "first-born", and seem to have a yearning to go into the Uttermost West, to Elvenhome. Ents, on the other hand, are definitely connected to the ground, appearing to be like trees, and even the Elves call Treebeard "Eldest", conveniently leaving out Tom Bombadil, who may be a Maia "gone native".

#19 GWTW

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 12:16 AM

It also seems that the Elfin rulers (Galadriel and Agent Smith from the Matrix (:D pleae don't shoot me, I don't remember his name in LOTR) are weightier than the other Elves. They do have this deep connection with Middle Earth, this responsibility towards Middle Earth. The other Elves (inc. Legolas) don't seem to have this primal connection except by extension from their leaders.

#20 Mel Johnson

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 04:23 AM

There are reasons for a difference in motion vocabulary for these characters: Elrond (Hugo Weaving) is only half-Elven and had to make a choice as to whether to live as an Elf or as a Man. He chose the former, his brother, who died ages ago, the latter. Galadriel (Cate Blanchett) is one of the Noldor, the Deep-Elves, who were among the first to populate Middle-Earth. She stays in the land because she is banished from passing into the West for her leadership of a rebellion against the Powers (Valar) who were empowered to run Middle-Earth by God (Ilývatar). That's the reason for the importance of the scene where she refuses the Ring, and says, "I have passed the test; I shall pass into the West and remain Galadriel."

#21 BW

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 05:22 AM

Mel, and all of you other folks who've posted so eloquently, I must ask - where do you get all your information? Granted, I haven't read the trilogy in many, many years, but still! Is there an annotated text?

All right, that was obviously a dumb question! I just clicked on the Tolkien Scocitey link!:eek: Do they offer a PHD in Tolkien? Oddly, the text on parts of the site is rather unclear - sort of like a double exposure. :D

#22 Mel Johnson

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 07:18 AM

Apart from the trilogy, and its predecessor The Hobbit, Tolkien was writing all the way from 1915 until his death about the doings of Arda and the Shaping of Middle-Earth. Now there are twelve volumes of his various drafts for the entire story. Some of his writings were collected and cobbled together by his son Christopher under the title The Silmarillion and published, but the reading is not as graceful as JRRT's. The whole story of the World from Creation to the beginning of the Fourth Age has been published and is currently available. There have also been numerous commentaries and analyses, including the Professor's letters dealing with Middle-Earth.

I don't have any trouble reading the text on the Tolkien Society site. Maybe if you tried it on MSIE or Netscape instead of the aol version of IE, it would be clearer.

#23 BW

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 11:10 AM

You know, I think I may have read The Silmarillion along time ago, as well. I'll give the site a look through a non AOL source, thanks Mel.

#24 SpiritIvy

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 05:06 PM

I liked the comment that made about legolas being so light on his feet. I understand it, because my ballet teacher is constantly telling me to stay grounded because I am NOT a faery, yet :D I have no sense of my weight, truthfully. rather comparable to Legolas I suppose- my ears are even slightly pointed :D I am a much bigger Aragorn fan. He's SOOOOOOOOOOO cute. *sighs* Viggo Mortensen is also 4 years older than my dad (as well as married, I believe) so it's totally unrealistic haha. Legolas was my former favorite, but as I watched more and more of the movies and started reading the books, I realized Aragorn is more my type ;) I've actually been raiding the comic book stores around here trying to find an Aragorn standee... I could order online but I dont want to pay for shipping. It's quite sad, really.

I am dying to read the Simarillion though, but I am only halfway through the Two Towers. I plan to read that after I am finished with the trilogy.

#25 Mel Johnson

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 05:13 PM

The Silmarillion is a much tougher read than the Trilogy or The Hobbit. It's very disjointed and tells a series of stories widely separated in time during the First and Second Ages of the World.
Also you have to get used to a different geography. Middle-Earth was different in the Third Age.

#26 dancermom2

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 08:15 PM

FYI...Toys R Us and Kaybee Kids are also selling the action figures and barbie sized figures of the LOTR characters. We have Aragorn and Legolas of course!

I remember reading the Silmarillion (Sp?) and it was a hard read. I was wondering if I picked it up and read it again it would be easier now that I am older and wiser. I actually read through all the end notes that Tolkein wrote that they included in the new paperback edition they issued and that had lots of interesting info!

#27 Leigh Witchel

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 09:25 PM

Originally posted by SpiritIvy
*sighs* Viggo Mortensen is also 4 years older than my dad


*blinks*

I'm just going to go off somewhere and feel very, very old. . .

#28 julip

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Posted 03 February 2003 - 12:02 AM

As I watched The Two Towers AGAIN yesterday, I was thinking along the lines that the older elves (Galadriel, Elrond, Celeborn) all seemed to have that more grounded feeling...maybe you only get that after 5000 years instead of 2000...

I was also noticing that during fight sequences, Orlando's physicality to me became much more interesting. Instead of just floating above ground he seemed to become one with everything, the supreme action hero.

#29 Mel Johnson

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Posted 03 February 2003 - 04:22 AM

I recall trying to figure out how old Galadriel was when we first meet her, and came up with something like 30,000 years, and that she robbed the cradle by marrying Celeborn who's only a youthful 15,000. Elrond was born around the end of the First Age, and lived all through the Second, although his brother Elros died in S.A. 442, having chosen to be mortal. the Second Age lasted for 3441 years, so Elrond is a sprightly 6500 when we meet him.

The second film did a lot to establish Legolas more firmly with the audience, as the first had a lot of exposition to do, so he became a more sympathetic character and less distant.

#30 SpiritIvy

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Posted 03 February 2003 - 08:15 AM

Ms. Witchel, I didn't mean offense... it's just that hes approximately 30 years older than I am, which is quite an age difference for a 16 year old....... On second thought, if Galadriel was 30,000 in the story, and Celeborn (I love that name) was 15,000, I don't see why Viggo and I could work something out haha :D

I had always guessed Galadriel was about 8000, just a wild guess, 30,000 is quite a length of time! I think Elves have it really easy. None of them seem to have jobs, they just kind of sing in the forests all day and throw lots of feasts. Sounds like fun to me!

On the subject of Orlando again, thinking back to the first movie, to me he seems very grounded when walking on the snow. It makes no sense, as the elves are light on their feet, but it seems fitting- one of my biggest corrections in ballet is to STAY GROUNDED in my balances (and a few other things). I've been working on it for a long time, and I am improving, but I FELL grounded when I dance this way, even if I'm not. Maybe this explains why Legolas LOOKS grounded on the snow when he is obviously not. I can't remember his physicality in the second movie, as I've only seen it once, and that was over a month ago. I almost went to see it last night but it snowed a lot and no one wanted to drive. I DO remember crying when Aragorn *died* (when they thought he had died) and when Elrond told Arwen about her future life if she stayed with Aragorn... I also kept going "nooo, you can't fall in love with Eowyn, Aragorn! Arwen's totally in love with you and you can't ruin it!" I'm such a hopeless romantic.


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