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Can a "genius" or a "real artist" be a decent pers


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Poll: Can a "genius" or a "real artist" be a decent pers (36 member(s) have cast votes)

Can a "genius" or a "real artist" be a decent pers

  1. true, extraordinary talent and decency don't mix (11 votes [14.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.47%

  2. false, they do (65 votes [85.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 85.53%

Vote

#46 dirac

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 09:53 AM

I add my thanks, Renata. Yes, tell us more!

#47 richard53dog

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 04:57 PM

Battle's voice is very lovely, but her voice type is not the rarest, and the type of roles written specifically for it are the ones that require voice quality, great technique, and taste.    There are few great lieder singers from her voice type, Elly Ameling being one of the exceptions.

I've never thought Battle had much artistic range, which is why it has always surprised me that her ego was tolerated as long as it was.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Helene, Battle did start out with quite a sense of exploration. The first Pamina I saw her(in the early 80s) do was breathtakingly beautiful and expressive and I really went thinking she had bitten off way more than she could chew. I thought it was much more beautiful than the Met telecast from about 10 years later

But it all seemed to start to atrophy around the time she turned 40, there was much less imagination and what was a fresh beautiful sound started to tend to sameness and became a bit furry and cloying to boot

So I would say she had her moments but they didn't last too long. Did the emotional things shut down her artistic exploration? Who knows, certainly I won't even try to guess.

Richard

#48 richard53dog

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 05:17 PM

When I think of a nice-guy, albeit small-A, artist, I think of Bruce Springsteen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Funny, just by coincidence last weekend I went to dinner in Asbury Park, NJ
( which is making an AMAZING comeback from decay) and I drove by The Stone Pony. Blocks and blocks are being rehabed or built on, but I'm sure this will remain untouched

Richard

#49 dirac

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 06:03 PM

Helene wrote:

I've never thought Battle had much artistic range, which is why it has always surprised me that her ego was tolerated as long as it was.


Breaking the Not-a-Battle-thread guideline. Helene's comment and richard53dog's post have me reflecting that Battle's awareness of her lack of range and vocal options as she aged -- you can't sing Despina forever -- contributed to her temperament. She may have been feeling the pressure.

#50 Renata

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 06:08 PM

Thank you dirac and Farrell Fan for you kind comments about my post. Since I did do all of the travel arrangements for Hurok Concerts, I got to know many details of many artists' lives. But, I guess I prefer to remember the positive things that different people did and not to repeat the less positive. And, in addition to being great artists, like all people, many of them had some special qualities.

Jacqueline du Pre and I shared a birthday although (as I would remind her) hers was a few years ahead of mine. When she learned that we had the same birthday, we began a tradition....we exchanged birthday cards every year until the year she died. And, she always kept up with my news --such as when my first daughter was born--and offered encouragement, which must have been painful for her since she was so ill at the time.

Van Cliburn, is a very gentle, kind man. When I worked for the Hurok office, he would be accosted by fans wherever he went, yet he always had a minute to say hello. A few years ago, he was playing a concert in the city where I live. I went to the dress rehearsal with my two daughters who love classical music and were fairly serious musicians and afterwards, I stopped to say hello. His greeting to my kids was one they will never forget. He bent down, almost kneeling, (he is very tall) to hug them and to talk about the good old days when he and their mom worked at Hurok Concerts.

I could go on and on with these anecdotes, but I think that I would wear out my welcome on this thread. So, I do think that many great people have great human capacity and qualities of caring for others. On the other hand, that does not mean that all great people will have the qualities. It depends on the individual.

#51 dirac

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 06:42 PM

Thank you again, Renata. I agree, it is more pleasant to dwell on the good than the bad. (Perhaps we don't do enough of it, hence the topic under discussion. :)) Your memory of Jacqueline du Pre is lovely. (It's sad to think of how many people out ther have an impression of her only from that movie from a few years back.)



Rest assured, you won't wear out your welcome. :)

#52 Farrell Fan

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 07:26 PM

Thanks again from me too, Renata. Your story about Van Cliburn makes me think of Suzanne Farrell (surprise!). My late wife was less than five feet tall and whenever Suzanne talked to her, she'd unobtrusively do a plie so that her face was level with Alice's.

#53 carbro

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 07:38 PM

Rest assured, you won't wear out your welcome.  :) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not in this decade, anyway!

Thanks from me, too, Renata. Both stories help humanize our sense of these musicians.

You too, FF! :)

#54 GWTW

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 05:51 AM

QUOTE(dirac @ Aug 10 2005, 10:42 PM)
Rest assured, you won't wear out your welcome.   

Not in this decade, anyway!


Certainly not on this board. That sounds like my dream job, Renata. What an incredible first job, especially at such an interesting time in the cultural world. (At the risk of displaying my supreme ignorance, I admit that I think it must have been before I was born).

#55 PetipaFan

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 10:54 AM

"I guess I prefer to remember the positive things that different people did and not to repeat the less positive" --Renata

Thanks for sharing your positive memories with us Renata, I wonder can you tell us anything about Nureyev and Fonteyn or were they after your time working for Hurok?

#56 Renata

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 12:31 PM

Hi Petipa Fan
I was just joking when I said I was born in the dark ages. Some of you seem to think that I was serious. Margot Fonteyn was a Hurok artist before I ever attended a ballet. Although I met both Margot Fonteyn and Rudolf Nureyev, I do not have any exciting anecdotes to add since I worked mainly with solo musicians.

John Cranko once had me do some work for him...he was very pleasant and nice. He had such an understated manner that people in the office asked me who he was after he left my desk.

#57 danceintheblood

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 09:36 PM

Surely, being a 'genius' or a 'real artist' does not give a person an exemption from showing decency in their dealings with other human beings? I can't say that I have met anyone that I would regard as a genius, however, I have met many people with extraordinary talent and the best among them were those who showed respect for others. As someone said earlier, it's really not that difficult.

#58 dirac

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 04:55 PM

danceintheblood may well have a point. In Greg Lawrence's bio of Jerome Robbins, he quotes someone -- it was either John Kander or the late Fred Ebb, I think the former -- about Robbins' notorious bad behavior, and Kander said something like, He did it because he could get away with it, he wouldn't be able to these days. Which may well be an oversimplification, but one with some truth to it. Toscanini acted like Toscanini because he could, but it would be difficult to get musicians to sit still for such treatment nowadays.

#59 kfw

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 08:10 AM

danceintheblood may well have a point. In Greg Lawrence's bio of Jerome Robbins, he quotes someone -- it was either John Kander or the late Fred Ebb, I think the former -- about Robbins' notorious bad behavior, and Kander said something like, He did it because he could get away with it, he wouldn't be able to these days.  Which may well be an oversimplification, but one with some truth to it.  Toscanini acted like Toscanini because he could, but it would be difficult to get musicians to sit still for such treatment nowadays.

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I don't know, dirac, Robbins only died 7 years ago, well into the Question Authority era, and while Judith Fugate and perhaps others are on record as having refused to work with him, many others did. His behavior stemmed from insecurity, or so we're told, and perhaps knowing that gave people the strength to withstand his storms.

#60 carbro

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 09:44 AM

One of the frequent themes in criticism of the Robbins oeuvre is his keen observation of human behavior. You'd think someone with his insight would understand how easy it would be to take his behavior as a sign of insecurity . . . and change it!


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