Jump to content


This site uses cookies. By using this site, you agree to accept cookies, unless you've opted out. (US government web page with instructions to opt out: http://www.usa.gov/optout-instructions.shtml)

Is anything vulgar (in dancing) today?


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#16 Mme. Hermine

Mme. Hermine

    Emeralds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,757 posts

Posted 21 November 2001 - 12:46 PM

i don't recall ever hearing carabosse's theme in the sleeping beauty overture, and having seen boston's sleeping beauty a number of times, don't recall any cuts being made in the overture. also took out tapes of a number of other productions to check. in addition, i thought the midsummer night's dream the boston ballet did was that of bruce wells, not stanton welch. whether or not it was rearranged further i don't know as i did not see it this year.

#17 Mme. Hermine

Mme. Hermine

    Emeralds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,757 posts

Posted 22 November 2001 - 06:59 AM

4ts:
yes you are right, and yet i always considered the music's echoing when carabosse enters to be a perversion of the original use of the music to introduce the ballet, since when it is first used it is so glorious and when it is echoed it is so sinister. anyone care to comment?
as for the company's musical integrity, i'll say only that it must be a hard thing to fight for in any case!

#18 felursus

felursus

    Bronze Circle

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 250 posts

Posted 21 November 2001 - 12:37 AM

In response to Alexandra's query about when is it vulgar vs. when is it fun, I'd like to say that IMO it depends on the ballet and what is being done. Balances held for an excessive amount of time so that the music has to stop would be appalling in 'Giselle' but might be fun in the Don Q pdd. (I put up a question in regard to "missing princes" in the Rose Adagio which points to this issue.) In general, I think that if the music has to come to a complete halt - as opposed to a brief pause, then it's pretty vulgar. I certainly think bows in the middle of the 2nd act of Giselle are vulgar, although in the past I have seen Giselles who DID come out for one. Today they seem to run across the stage to acknowledge applause. (Hey, it may even put them on the correct side of the stage for their next entrance!)

Another pet peeve of mine is excessive extensions. Some artists - Guillem, for example - know how to control this. We all know that Sylvie can wrap her legs around her head, but she has demonstrated that she doesn't HAVE to do this all the time. It's great however in something whose whole point is vulgarity - eg. the Grand Pas Classique. rolleyes.gif

#19 felursus

felursus

    Bronze Circle

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 250 posts

Posted 26 November 2001 - 02:52 AM

Throwing flowers on stage in the middle of a performance is nothing new - it's been going on since the 19th c. However, what really took the cake was during a run of the opera "Lucia di Lammermore" with Joan Sutherland at Covent Garden way back in the 70s, there were fans who insisted on throwing streamers onto the stage when Sutherland took a bow after her character dies. Unfortunately for the fans, there is yet another scene in the opera before the end, and the streamers risked the life of everyone in the theater, as some would land in the footlights, and the heat could cause the paper streamers to ignite - this without the problems that the other singers had trying to wade through ankle-deep piles of the streamers!

#20 liebs

liebs

    Bronze Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 495 posts

Posted 18 November 2001 - 11:41 PM

Male dancers who ignore their partners in ppd and appear to care only about their variations are vulgar.

#21 Calliope

Calliope

    Gold Circle

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 805 posts

Posted 20 November 2001 - 04:40 PM

The polka section of Vienna Waltzes.
I think it's even been reviewed as "vulgar"

#22 4Ts

4Ts

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts

Posted 20 November 2001 - 11:33 PM

I don't know if this falls under the rubric of vulgarity, but I keep getting grossed out at the absolutely anti-musical cuts that the Boston Ballet has recently been dishing out.

Now, I know the Boston Ballet has had bigger troubles than cuts and I know that if you keep the orchestra exactly one minute overtime, you may need to declare bankruptcy, BUT! there's great music in some ballets and when there is, it's kind of important, right?

Here's how they transgressed. In last season's production of Sleeping Beauty, they started the overture, and right after the opening 8 bars of Carabosse's music... they cut the rest of the overture - no Lilac Fairy music, no dramatic juxtaposition. In this season's Stanton Welch Midsummer Night's Dream, they started the overture, and right after the opening long chords in the winds, guess what? they cut the rest of the overture.

This music is not by Minkus. It is integral to the drama - in the case of the Mendelssohn, it is very grateful to dance - at least for Balanchine it was. To me, doing cuts like this suggests something of a disdain for music.

Is this defensible in anyone's view?

#23 4Ts

4Ts

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts

Posted 21 November 2001 - 11:51 PM

Mme. Hermine:
You are of course right about Boston Ballet's Midsummer Night's Dream choreographer. Stanton Welch's Madame Butterfly will be later in the season. I mixed up the leading "Wel"s.

It's impossible to hum a tune over Bulletin Board, but what I call Carabosse's music is the tune we first hear in the overture. It's played again at Carabosse's appearance in the intro and little bits of it show up again in the 1st and 2nd acts, either when she actually appears or when we're supposed to feel her influence.

As to the cuts, maybe it's the fact that I go to Sunday matinees and the company wants to finish early. But there's just no question that in both Midsummer Night's Dream and Sleeping Beauty, the overtures were more than merely cut - they were hacked to death. Practices like this (IMHO) put in question of the musical integrity of the company.

#24 Lukayev

Lukayev

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 58 posts

Posted 19 November 2001 - 01:55 AM

While I'm a little young to be out and about and voicing my opinion on these sort of matters --

My mother and I were watcing Alessandra Ferri as Giselle (on tape) the other day and we both commented on how very soft her shoes looked. While it does provide a beautiful line for her feet while she's off-pointe, en pointe they look like they're about to send her toppling over her arches onto the floor. I'm sure they're strong enough to hold her, but I'd much rather prefer a little less arching in order to make the ballerina look (and probably feel) that much more stable. During her variation in Act I she didn't look very stable at all during the hops en pointe because she was so over her arches...

Perhaps I'm saying this because my Serenades aren't 3/4ed and beautiful, so therefore I'm being spiteful towards over-pretty feet. tongue.gif

--Luka

#25 Mashinka

Mashinka

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,196 posts

Posted 20 November 2001 - 12:10 PM

Leigh, if its vulgar you like, just wait till you see Anastasia Volochkova, she takes vulgarity to heights you never knew existed !!!!!!!!! eek.gif

#26 Guest_clairez5_*

Guest_clairez5_*
  • Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 17 November 2001 - 06:19 PM

Along the same line as Auvi, I find it vulgar when a corps member who is able to do more than the others does so with no respect for the overall composition and line. Often, a corps member who lifts her leg higher or holds a balance a split-second longer ends up looking less professional because she is not able to fulfill the essential requirement of a corps- to dance, as the name suggests, as one body. Although every dancer wants to be noticed on stage, this is not the way to do it.

#27 Richard Jones

Richard Jones

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 18 November 2001 - 05:50 AM

I'm totally with all who have posted about the need for respect for the music (by choreographers as well) and the overall needs of the performance as a team effort.

Acknowledging stars at the end is one thing, but the Kirov descended to the depths during their Swan Lake in London (ROH, 2000). After Odile's celebrated fouettés the conductor stopped the orchestra and Odile came down to the front of the stage to milk the applause. Since the music is in full flow at that point, the cut was very nasty indeed, and we then had to wind up the orchestra again in order for Siegfried to start his fireworks. Horrible!

#28 Richard Jones

Richard Jones

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 19 November 2001 - 01:46 AM

"That caesura at the end of the fouettés has been there for so long, it might as well be notated into the score, it's part of the landscape now."

Perhaps the English are more restrained! I hadn't encountered that effect before seeing the Kirov. Is this caesura generally observed in the USA?

#29 jude

jude

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted 20 November 2001 - 12:30 PM

i was horrified when i went to see the kirov do swan lake at the ROH this summer that not only didi the music stop so that ulina lopatkina (Sorry not sure of exact name) could come to centre stage to milk the applause but the music stopped for a good few moments until sigfreed galantly flounced to his place and then began his variotion after wich the music once again stopped!
for me half the excitement of the pdd is the way that the music and dancing builds to a climax, i f all of this is constatly being interupted then i feel the whole eefet is ruined.

i certanly feel people should applaud the dancers and of course there are plenty of opportunities for this at the end of the act but it seems a pity to sacrafice the overall effect of the act for needless arrogance!

#30 jude

jude

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted 21 November 2001 - 12:23 PM

alexandra
i see what you are saying about the diffrenet etiquettes etc ...some of the hamming was quite funny!
it was this particular instance when it really annoyed me as it felt like the priority of the dancers/company wasmore to milk milk their applause then to really show the pdd in the best way possible!!


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Help support Ballet Alert! and Ballet Talk for Dancers year round by using this search box for your amazon.com purchases (adblockers may block display):