Why do you dance?

[podiumstar]

I have been "dancing" for the last 5 months after a 23 year break. I don't feel like I am "dancing" though as I still feel rather self-conscious a lot of the time in class. Because I don't feel like I am "dancing", I ask myself every day, why am I taking ballet again? Afterall, it is expensive and uncomfortable a lot of the time. (I am always sore after class!!) What am I getting out of this? Do I do it for the exercise? No. That is definately not it. I am a fitness instructor (part-time now) and I am both aerobically fit and strength-fit from other programmes. I do not need ballet for exercise. Even my flexibility is good without ballet...

If I am honest, I do not say to myself "I need to dance"... and yet, when enchainments in the centre come together for me I get a huge thrill! Wow - is that really me getting the steps, arms and head movements all working together? Is that really me DANCING!! Yes, that is a thrill! But I also get a thrill when I see myself in a static balletic pose. I have spent sooooo many years feeding my ballet hunger looking at pictures in books. I get a kick out of a dancer's beautiful physical line without the movement to music! I can enjoy the physical strength, flexibility, turnout, line, extension, whatever as well as expression, dramatic lighting, a sumptuous costume etc etc.

To come back to the original question - why do I dance? There are many reasons it seems. And I am proud that I finally got up the courage to go back to ballet classes. And I am always proud to tell people that I "do" ballet. I wish I felt proud of my "performance" in class more often (*LOL*) but I know I can only improve!!

Sorry to ramble. I hope what I have written here makes sense...

Podiumstar

[ronny]

Dear Podiumstar,

This is not a ramble at all, you are speaking from the heart and I enjoyed every bit of it along with all of the others responses that have come to this simple question.

Reading all of these responses has been a great joy.

[Mel Johnson]

I feel a little like the woman working in a factory in Studs Terkel's Working.

"Whatcha know is whatcha do!";)

[silvy]

hello everyone - I do not know (again!!) if this is the correct place to post this so please move it if unproperly placed.

I do ballet seriously - but I also dance tango (for fun, but I also make stage appearences once in a while). This weekend I sort of "abused" this tango thing, and I ended up with achy metatarsals, and a cramp sensation in my arch (say; i was 8 hours in high heels, dancing for most of the time). This made me think that perhaps my feet are not "prepared" for the tango because of they are , you know, quite adapted to the pointe shoe (I have quite a high arch). I shall need to perform ballet again in about 20 days.

Have you heard if dancing in high heels is incompatible with dancing on pointe? Is it advisable to devote to only one of these dance forms for health reasons?

thanks for your advice!!

Silvy

[carbro]

I don't know if tango dancing and pointe are incompatible, Silvy. :confused: It would seem that your heels and pointe shoes would probably make your feet bend in very different ways, depending on your particular anatomy.

But WOW! I am very impressed by your ability to dance in high heels for eight hours! Congratulations to you!

[Mel Johnson]

I don't think that there's any longterm incompatability with wearing high heels and pointe work. But there is a story here:

My first teacher had been wearing heels since she had been 16 years old, and when she married, and was in her first pregnancy, the doctor told her to stop wearing heels and wear flat shoes with a low heel. Her feet hurt her so badly that she was in tears, and the doctor said, "Oh, for heaven's sake, go back to the heels!";)

[silvy]

Both to Mr Mel and to Carbro:

Quite a story that about your teacher with the heels - shud it mean I should be ON POINTE all the time!!! By the way, yesterday I took my first class after that tango abusing, and my feet do feel better now!!!

Of course, I was in high heels for 8 hours, but I was not dancing non-stop for all that time. You know, a tango ball (which is called a "milonga") consists of, say about 6 tangos (or waltzes, or milongas), followed by a pause (intended to switch partners), and then 6 tangos again. And of course, it depends on whether you are lucky enough to be invited to dance again after the pause!!!

thanks for your feedback.

Silvy

[tango49]

I've been reading this thread with great interest as I know the difficulty of the situation from talking to dancers and teachers who work here. I do have a question that I hope someone could answer for me. My son will be spending the next year studying in England and on the net I was told that he didn't need a student visa. We just got his passport but want to get a visa for him anyway as he might be doing some travel to other countries through his school and just want to play it safe. I've tried countless times to call the British Consolate to speak with someone but can only get recordings. My question...can he apply for a visa when he gets to England? Time is not on our side at this point and this seems our only alternative. Thanks, Tango

[sneds]

Hi!

I'm also studying in the UK this fall, and I sympathize about the lack of information from the UK consulates. Luckily, the school I'll be attending has provided a lot of information on their website.

US citizens do not needs visas, HOWEVER as of November 13th, the law in the European Union is changing and all US citizens (and citizens from nine other non-visa countries) who are staying in the UK longer than 6 months will need to get an entry certificate, which will be inserted into their passport. I highly reccomend getting this done BEFORE your son leaves the U.S. as there may be a lot of people going to the US consulates in the UK trying to get the new paperwork done before the final date and it could be difficult if your son is not near a US consulate or embassy. The paperwork can be done at one of the US consulates in the UK.

Info on the rule change can be found here: http://www.ed.ac.uk/internat/entry_clearance.html

It is especially important to get this done now if your son intends to travel outside the UK while he is at school, as it will make it much easier for him to travel and he may need a visa to visit some countries (there is a Schengen visa, which will allow you to travel around the following countries for a visit during the course of one trip (Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden) . It is also important if your son intends to do any work as student, as the UK is very strict letting non-citizens work.

Your son will need to fill out two forms: IM2A (general room) and IM2S (student form) and take those along with his passport, a letter of acceptance from the school in the UK, proof of money to pay for ALL expenses (copy or original of bank statement/scholarship forms etc.), two passport sized photos and if he's doing post-grad study, proof of graduation from a college/university in the US (official transcript). I believe the student forms cost 36 pounds, payable in cash or money order (I'm just bringing lots of cash).

The forms can be downloaded from the UK Visa website, which also all plenty of information:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pa...d=1014919208354

Though some of it is specific to Univ. Edinburgh, their international student section has a lot of really useful information (especially the pre-arrival and immigration section):

http://www.ed.ac.uk/internat/

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me or e-mail me through my website (www.sabworkshops.org).

Cheers!

Kate

[tango49]

Kate...Thankyou for such a detailed answer to my question! Some of the information I was aware of and some I was not. You have been a great help and am getting on top of this immediately! Wow, how utterly complicated and tricky this can become...especially for the common lay people! You seem to know your stuff and I will contact you if I get in trouble along the way! (If you don't mind that is)? Hoping your entry goes smoothly! Tango

[JaneD]

Tango

The information Kate has given is spot on, but if you have any problems I may be able to help you with contact details of named UK Visa contacts in the US - just let me know where you are and I'll see what I can do.

If all else fails, get to the Visa Office in Croydon, south London as soon after arrival as possible and queue! My Japanese student hairdresser tells me he started queueing at 5 a.m. .......

Jane

[tango49]

Thankyou JaneD! There is no emergency as yet as our plans now are to do a 'walkin' visa application when we go to N.Y. in a few weeks. They say it is most likely sameday service and I'm banking on that! May I ask what exactly does QUEUEING mean...never heard that before? Tango

Edited July 11, 2003 by tango49

[Alexandra]

Queueing is standing in a queue, standing in a line Don't wait until the last minute!

[tango49]

Thankyou Alexandra for the definition! We are trying to get our application in as quickly as possible and in the safest manner. The walk-in does

seem the safest way to go as opposed to mail delivery (5 wk. wait). I don't like the idea of mailing his passport along with the application...too many what ifs involved! I hope when we get to N.Y. we don't run into any problems. :sweating: Hopefully I will post when we get back just how easy it was...queueing and all!

Edited July 11, 2003 by tango49

[grace]

May I ask what exactly does QUEUEING mean...never heard that before? Tango

if you are going to the UK, you are going to the right place to FIND OUT!

[Funny Face]

I'm not sure that dancing en pointe is incompatible with any other dance form, but it does perhaps require more attention to the feet.

I danced with a company whose repertoire included works from virtually every country. The tango has long been part of our repertoire, and there were long hours of rehearsals involved. You didn't say what kind of heels you were wearing. We typically wore character shoes with approx. 2-1/2" heels. I was doing pointe class during those years, and I don't recall a problem. I have a friend from Argentina who is responsible for bringing some incredible tango shows here, and those women DO wear higher heels. The shoes are to die for -- almost literally. Gorgeous to look at, but perhaps a lot more painful. And I have to say, that I have never seen such sinewy dancers in my life. I didn't know women could be that thin and at the same time so extraordinarily strong. But to get back on point, pardon the pun, no dancing in character shoes ever posed a problem for my ballet work, whether it was Uzbekistan or Brazilian, etc. etc.

There are, however, other dances that have posed some problems. Our Basque suite required a good deal of dancing consistently somewhere between a demi-pointe and a flat foot -- that can be a strain. Also, I noticed that when I danced a good deal in character boots, it was not all that conducive to ballet. What I mean is that I really needed to work harder on stretching the foot after all that stomping. I also noted that one of our dancers whose specialty was Flamenco seemed to have difficulty really pointing her foot in a ballet slipper. I guess it's the articulation of the foot that seems challenged by all that character work. And -- it's just plain hard on the tootsies. They need special care -- soaks and massages and so forth.

Many years ago, I had a ballet professor who advised us to never wear anything higher than a "Cuban heel" (so as not to shorten the achilles tendon). I don't think any of us really understood what that was. I thought it was perhaps the same as a "squash heel," which was in fashion some time ago. And yes, I can see how that can be more comfortable than a totally flat shoe. That's why the teaching shoe has that little heel. Seems to provide some relief.

There has also been some debate as to whether a lot of walking is good for a dancer. Well, it's too late for me if it is. I'll walk as much as 10 miles a day, just getting to and from wherever. But -- I wear shoes that REALLY cushion and that have a wide toe box. I worked for a lovely woman for many years, teaching in her studio, and she always wore these pretty little flats on her delicate feet, and I thought that was so pretty that I went out and bought some delicate little flats so I could look like that. That lasted about one day. My feet ached. If you're going to do some real walking, then fashion stops at the ankle. (Although practical shoes are getting more attractive).

And -- for some reason, fashion boots don't pose a problem for me. I wear them on occasion, and they don't bother me the way other fashion shoes might.

I took some classes about 12 years ago while sojourning in Philadelphia from a wonderful modern teacher there, and I'll never forget her going around the room and checking the knuckles in our feet. She said they should be as prominent as those in our hands. There were one or two men in class that had no problem in this regard, but several of the women in class had problems even finding these knuckles. The teacher had to really push them out for the students. Apparently, if you walk in heels enough, those knuckles will get lost and never return. All you need to do is go back and look at fashion magazines from the 1980s and you'll see nothing by strappy sandals posing as harbingers of problems to come. She suggested a variety of exercises and although I was a serious walker, I took these exercises to heart. Things like picking up a pen with your toes and trying to write your name. To this day, I do a lot of "monkey toes" exercises to keep my feet articulating and strong.

[BW]

On the Links forum, I finally got around to reading some of this past week's posts: click on this and scroll down until you come to "the cruelest profession" by Toby Tobias

Monday, July 28, 2003

      JUST ASKING: ANSWERS

      SEEING THINGS invited dancers and dance aficionados (as well as mere pedestrians) to respond to this question:  Some would say that dancing is the cruelest profession, all but guaranteeing grueling work, physical pain, poverty, and heartbreak.  Yet the field has always been rich in aspirants willing to dedicate their lives to the art.  Why? ...

Read on, enjoy it and see what you think.

[koshka]

All-

I am going on a short trip to Vienna, Athens, Bucharest and Sofia in the middle of September.

Does anyone know of any performances, open adult classes, or interesting ballet shops in any of these cities?

Sadly, there is only opera at the Vienna Opera on the days I'll be there.

[tango49]

Well we're back from N.Y. with Visa in hand and it was a painless experience :sweating: Because I had all the neccesary papers the whole process took less than 45 min. Queueing time was about 15-20 min. but only because we arrived there about 8:15 AM(before the crowd started piling in). They say that it opens at 9:00AM but in reality after a short wait downstairs they let you go upstairs by 8:30 and open their windows about the same time. My son did not need to be there for us to get his visa (a worry)as long as we had his passport and ALL of the documents they requested. You might have to go and come back an hour or two as they process everything (we only had a 10 min. wait) but you get your visa 'same day' as they say. Most visas are done by mail which can take 5 weeks or more depending on any problems arising.

SNEDS...sorry of your problems at the visa office and hope you won't experience any more when you get to Europe Tango

[Alexandra]

Sadly, we seem to be not well-travelled, koshka

Bumping this up to see if anyone can help!

[diane]

You could try this link, or one with the beginning of this one.....

http://www.nethotels.com/events/english/Ev..._max=11&Group=7

I got it from clicking around in this one:

http://www.wien.gv.at/english/

(go to calender of events, or something like that)

Good luck!

-d-

[Alexandra]

I just checked the ballet-tanz web site. They used to have a WONDERFUL calendar of every dance company in Europe and what they were doing, but it doesn't seem to be there any more.

They do, however, have a message board. There are several other "I'm going to be traveling to Germany, could you recommend classes," etc. posts, where people have posted an email address. I don't know if you'd get a response, but it might be worth a try.

http://www.ballet-tanz.de/en/base/f_kont.html

[Guest CavalierScott]

It’s the opportunity to dance to the inspiring great classical music in the performance pieces that keeps me working diligently all year long in class. I’m really drawn toward doing more than just listening to an intensely emotional piece of music. The better dancer I become, the more I can consciously enter into this experience with the music. (I’m afraid my consciousness is sill pretty involved with “which foot or which step comes next?”, but it keeps getting better)

To dance well with a partner who shares my values and passion for the music is, I feel, as close to a joyously fulfilling relationship as two people can have, outside of a really good relationship in the much more complex and difficult “real world”.

I like the strong traditions of ballet that separate it from the world outside. I can’t think of any other activity that allows for intimately and intensely sharing beautiful experiences with another person in such a relatively straightforward simple environment. Giving and receiving trust, appreciation and care seems central to a good partnering relationship. Learning such principals of good dancing and partnering, as well as the experience of dancing interesting roles onstage, are giving me a clearer understanding of life and relationships outside of the dance studio and the stage.

I short, I dance ballet because I love it.

I wrote this poem after the last Nutcracker I was in (I was given TWO different partnering roles in the same production, Oh Boy!)

STEPS FOR TWO

Two worlds apart

The “Real” and the “Romance”

One where I live,

One where I dance.

Love fulfilled with

Trust, Appreciation and Care.

We all seek it in our lives,

Both to receive and to share.

Simple in it’s beauty,

Profound in it’s force,

Pas de Deux: Steps of Love;

Two brought together on course.

Scott Roskam

[Guest ilive2danz]

I guess I sort of got thrown in there when I was about 6, not really knowing how important it was going to be to me until I turned 11 and quit. After quiting it made me realize how much I loved to dance and that I didn't just want to do it I had to. I started again when I turned 14.

*If you read the quote under this it pretty much explains it, dancing just makes you feel good!

Edited August 11, 2003 by ilive2danz

[jane]

ilive2danz - I too learnt the extent of my love for ballet after giving it up and then picking it up again. I feel so proud of doing ballet, and of my tiny involvement in its world. Its such a rich and longheld, beautiful tradition that I want to imerse myself in it. Ballet has the ability to make me feel beautiful, because I am using my own body to make something lovely; it really is great for the self-esteem. I too feel that just listening to music isn't enough-I have to dance to it. I dont know why, but I just have to-I can't sit still!!

Also, I love the fact that ballet is always a challenge, and you can just keep on improving. I think that I like this factor partly because in some lessons at school, I am perpetually bored, because there are not enough challenges. There are some classes that I can just do well in without really trying, so in a way it's less satisfying to suceed. However, in ballet I have never experienced this. I work for what I can do :sweating: . And when I can do it, it is an enourmous pleasure. Some of the other girls in my ballet class complain that it is all excercises, but, though it may sound silly, I love each excercise because to me it is a dance in itself.

There is something that makes me want to dance. Even in the supermarket!! . Dancing makes me feel so happy . Sorry about me rambling on, people. I guess, what I am trying to say is that ballet makes me happy in a way nopthing else I know does. I love it!