Jump to content


This site uses cookies. By using this site, you agree to accept cookies, unless you've opted out. (US government web page with instructions to opt out: http://www.usa.gov/optout-instructions.shtml)

Funding & Elitisim


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#16 Mme. Hermine

Mme. Hermine

    Emeralds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,757 posts

Posted 24 December 2001 - 11:20 AM

well here's that paragraph. they don't address (at least there) the issue of whether or not it is income (i always thought it was and that was why you had to keep receipts etc.).

PER DIEM - USA AND CANADA*
In addition to the above in-town contractual salaries, all ARTISTS shall receive per diem for each day spent outside the City of Origination as follows:

8/23/99-8/22/00 8/23/00-9/22/01 8/23/01-8/22/02
$155.00 $160.00 $165.00

Per diem shall begin at the time of call in the City of Origination and shall finish at the drop-off point in the City of Origination.

*excepting U.S. State Department designated "High Cost" areas, which shall be negotiated individually as needed.

PER DIEM - SARATOGA

In addition to the above in-town contractual salaries, all ARTISTS shall receive per diem for each day spent outside the City of Origination as follows:

8/23/99-8/22/00 8/23/00-9/22/01 8/23/01-8/22/02
$140.00 $145.00 $150.00

oh, and that's www.agmanatl.com, not .org. sorry

#17 liebs

liebs

    Bronze Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 495 posts

Posted 24 December 2001 - 01:43 PM

$57,000 for top level corps dancers at NYCB is not a lot of money. Per diems are often spent on tour because even dancers have to eat. NYCB dancers work 38-40 weeks per year and that $57,000 has to cover 52 weeks of expenses in a very expensive city.

It has always been my understanding that NYCB is the highest paid co. in America and it has the most guaranteed weeks of work. So Victoria, I think you are right and most young dancers should not expect to make $100,000 per year.

#18 Calliope

Calliope

    Gold Circle

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 805 posts

Posted 24 December 2001 - 01:54 PM

I need to clarify.
The salary is typical of senior corps (5 years in)
Housing. Most of the dancers have apartments that are relatively cheap for NYC. NYCB has a few real estate contractors they work with. Most have apartments either under 1000 or a little more than.
Hotels on tour are paid by the Company. If your per diem is $400 a week, that's just to pay for food and whatever else you decide to do. All the time you're on tour, there's company dinners and parties, so you could not ever have to pay for a meal. Also, overseas, there are no U.S. taxes, depending on who sponsors the tours since the money is made outside of the U.S.
Saratoga, since they split houses is pretty cheap as well, with a per diem there.
The time off from the summer you can collect unemployment and most rent out their apartments and either work at summer workshops or enjoy much needed time off.
While MOST dancers don't make this much, in NY they are compensated. And not all of the dancers do guest tours or teach, but those that do can make 100,000.
One of the biggest shocks most of the dancers has is that once they stop dancing, they don't make as much and that's why various programs have been set up to help with that transition.
As for young kids, no they shouldn't expect to make millions while dancing, but I think it's the parents who are mostly worried about the cost and SAB they have programs to help the parents figure out that as well.
Hope that helps. Again, this isn't what everyone does.

#19 Manhattnik

Manhattnik

    Gold Circle

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 847 posts

Posted 24 December 2001 - 04:52 PM

One of the biggest shocks most of the dancers has is that once they stop dancing, they don't make as much

Go figure.

I think it's great that NYCB corps dancers can do so well, and only wish that dancers elsewhere might come even remotely close.

#20 Victoria Leigh

Victoria Leigh

    Silver Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 603 posts

Posted 24 December 2001 - 05:14 PM

Check out ARB and what they are going through right now. There was a story (see Links from yesterday, Dec. 23) about their new ballets being scrapped, company cut by 4 dancers, and the salaries of the rest of the dancers cut from $26,000 to $16,000. frown.gif That's a very long way from NYCB, and really shows the degree of difference from company to company. It's very hard to think of any professional dancers today only making $26k, and anything less than that is totally impossible in terms of making a living as a dancer.

#21 sneds

sneds

    Bronze Circle

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 260 posts

Posted 24 December 2001 - 09:55 PM

Hi!
I'm by no means very knowledgable on the topic, but just a few comments:

Calliope wrote:
I need to clarify. The salary is typical of senior corps (5 years in)

Kate: I would assume that is before taxes (city, state AND federal), and is that before or after deductions for health care premiums??

Housing. Most of the dancers have apartments that are relatively cheap for NYC. NYCB has a few real estate contractors they work with. Most have apartments either under 1000 or a little more than.

Kate: I suspect that the company works with these contractors to find inexpensive apartments because the dancers can't afford to pay much more-these generally are not luxurious apartments by any stretch of the imagination. And do these figures include phone bills, electricity, heat,laundry etc.?? That adds A LOT to the cost of rent... Not to mention that unless you are in a rent-controlled apartment, rent goes up a bit every year to offset increases in the landlord's expenses. And if you own your apartment, you probably have to pay some kind of property/real-estate tax.


Hotels on tour are paid by the Company. If your per diem is $400 a week, that's just to pay for food and whatever else you decide to do. All the time you're on tour, there's company dinners and parties, so you could not ever have to pay for a meal. Also, overseas, there are no U.S. taxes, depending on who sponsors the tours since the money is made outside of the U.S.

Kate:
Even if there are parties and dinners at night, you have to eat during the day, and especially in Great Britain, it's not cheap. Nor does the company always stay in decent hotels-in Scotland the company was housed in dormitories.
I believe that you get taxed on money no matter where it is made-earned income is earned income. The rules (and endless tax forms) may be different, but the money isn't tax free in the end.

Saratoga, since they split houses is pretty cheap as well, with a per diem there.

Kate: They split houses because of the cost-Saratoga is expensive in the summer and decent housing is VERY hard to get because of the concurrent ballet and horse racing seasons. They have to pay rent, and per diem has to cover just about everything else-gas/transportation (the performing arts center is not close to much of the housing), food (which is often take out or restaurant since they often are too busy or too exhausted to cook), laundry etc.

The time off from the summer you can collect unemployment and most rent out their apartments and either work at summer workshops or enjoy much needed time off.

Kate: Unemployment isn't exactly great pay...especially when you are trying to make ends meet in NYC.

While MOST dancers don't make this much, in NY they are compensated. And not all of the dancers do guest tours or teach, but those that do can make 100,000.

Kate: I suspect that not many actually clear $100,000 and in anycase, those that do lose a lot of that income to the city, state and federal governments in taxes.

One of the biggest shocks most of the dancers has is that once they stop dancing, they don't make as much and that's why various programs have been set up to help with that transition.


Kate: I think that the shock is more in having to decide what to do when your ballet career is over, when you've been spending most of your time and energy on ballet since a very young age. Money is one issue, but having to go out and start anew can be very scary and overwhelming.
If dancers are making $100,000, with some good financial advice and planning, they should be able to invest enough to make the transition financially, so long as they aren't unemployed for too long.

Also, is any of that pay deducted for health insure
Kate

#22 Manhattnik

Manhattnik

    Gold Circle

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 847 posts

Posted 24 December 2001 - 11:19 PM

Kate: I suspect that not many actually clear $100,000 and in anycase, those that do lose a lot of that income to the city, state and federal governments in taxes.

Stop the presses! You mean, dancers actually have to pay taxes like, well, everyone else?

While many of your points are well taken, I'm sure Calliope meant dancers some corps dancers' pre-tax gross might be as much as 100k, not that it's their post-tax income! I don't know anyone who, when boasting, or complaining, of his or her salary, will say they "make" their after-taxes income. Common usage, at least in my experience, is that you "make" your pre-tax gross.

#23 Dale

Dale

    Emeralds Circle

  • Board Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,054 posts

Posted 25 December 2001 - 02:52 AM

Keeping in mind that NYCB is one of the highest paying jobs (if not the highest), the work year is 40 weeks (I thought I read some where it was about 42-46 including rehearsals), and the work lives of dancers is short compared to other professions, a job that pays $52,000 a year is pretty decent, even in New York. Most of the people I graduated undergrad with in 1993 can't afford to live in Manhattan, let alone the Lincoln Center area, do not make $50,000 a year and have heaps of college loan payments. So, on a certain level, these dancers are doing quite well, especially if they know how to manage their money through the 6-10 weeks they're off. I'm sure some dancers are going to come read this with daggers in their eyes, but I remember feeling this way while reading the recent feature on NYCB corps dancers in Dance Magazine. However, many dancers, especially main corps memebers (ones who are obviously not going to be soloists or principals), do not have long performing careers and most ballet companies don't pay as much as NYCB, whereas many of us can continue on rising up the ladder well into our 40s, 50s and 60s.

Getting back to galas, I think that while the night itself might not generate as much money as it has in the past, they will continue during these hard economic times as a reward to those who do contribute a lot of money. In fact, I think that companies can look at other items, things that do not cost much, as a "reward" to those who contribute, espcially during the stretch we're in now where so many different organizations are vying for our dollars. For ex. more rehearsal or dress rehearsal viewings. Or a chance to meet dancers (not in function that would cost money but in the green room). Like I said in another tread, companies need to get a little creative these days. And I think, that yes, they can be a little less elitist in the way they treat the audience.

I do agree with Alexandra about the high wages of the top executives or AD. But it is that way in life, the people below are the ones who take the financial brunt when things go wrong, not the ones at the top -- just look at Enron.

#24 Calliope

Calliope

    Gold Circle

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 805 posts

Posted 25 December 2001 - 07:37 AM

A Merry Christmas to all.

yes 100,000 is pre-tax.
The contractor for real estate is rent-stabilized.
When you make a base of 57 K and you have on average 15 hours a week of hourtime (more during Nutcracker) it's quite easy to clear 75 K on that alone.
You can collect unemployment even if you're doing a gig in say Italy. They don't stay in 4 Star Hotels often, but that depends on who is doing the tour. For example, Scotland it's dorms, Australia it was the Sheraton, it really depends on who's bringing you there.
Taxes. You can write off all of your "work" related necessities, such as clothes, shoes, the cost of laundering those clothes, pilates classes and outside dance classes.
You do have to pay AGMA dues, but that also includes your healthcare, of which they have doctor's on staff and massage therapists, so in some instances you'd never have to leave the building!
So, you may not have 100 K floating around in your apartment, but it does add up by year's end. And if you own your apartment, you get the interest write offs.
My sister danced for 8 years with the Company. She cleared the $100 K mark 5 of those 8 years and then was stunned when she found out I graduated college and was making 30 K. I've sinced moved up smile.gif but in the beginning I didn't have an apartment she had, or even half the size, or half the price. But NYCB is a huge corporation and one of the pressures of getting in and out is the financial security.

Like with any job though, in the beginning you don't make the "good money" you need to work your way up to a manager and then director. Ballet just changes the titles.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Help support Ballet Alert! and Ballet Talk for Dancers year round by using this search box for your amazon.com purchases (adblockers may block display):