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no one ever wished it longer


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In tomorrow's Arts & Leisure section of the NY Times (p. 8 in the edition I get in Philly), Wendy Perron has a piece called "Snip. Snip: Dance, Too, Needs Editing." I think it's a great piece that alludes to the particular lack of mentorship/apprenticeship that choreographers have to (or have the opportunity to) go through--especially ballet choreographers.

Lots more to say, but what do others think?

Ray

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I get my Sunday Times on line, so I haven't read it either, but YES. Even very good choreographers need an editor (Sergei Pavlovitch, where are you??)

I think one of the problems is the "put on the CD and dance it" syndrome. There are very few choreographers with the musicianship to be able to do that, and I've watched a lot of new ballets that sag in the middle. To put it crassly, many choreographers don't seem to know how to use the music between the loud chords. (Walk, run -- THERE'S A CHORD! Leap! Lift!)

That's not a problem solved by snipping, though, unfortunately. (The two great examples where snipping has produced wonderful results are Balanchine's "Apollo" and Ashton's "Symphonic Variations," both of which were the result of judicious paring.)

How many ballet choreographers today have a simple movement theme that they develop? That's become one of my measuring sticks. Is there development? Or do they just wander around from movement motif to movement motif, like structured improv people?

Perhaps if we got back to constructing ballets from steps rather than movements (a shimmy, a shake, and a roll on the floor, all fine for modern dance, but not part of the ballet vocabulary) it would help :D

Thanks for the topic, Ray!

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I have a feeling this topic will pick up more after the article comes on line, it is an interesting one.

There's revision and then there's pruning. It's hard to cut down a work if you're using recorded music, you may remove extraneous elements (as in Symphonic Variations) but making it shorter means either re-recording the music or doctoring it. That's more possible with a "studio" score, and can be very dicey with classical music.

Apollo is an interesting case, isn't it? I think it got reduced correctly by 1956-7, but that Balanchine may have pruned too much by 1978.

As a chorographer, I'm very ambivalent about an outside editor. It's a great idea if the person is in sympathy with your work and your goals, it's not so good otherwise - of course, I also don't like "workshopping" choreography either. A lot of the advice you get is from people telling you What They Would Do If They Were You, which is really beside the point.

Some of the best critiquing I get is from my friend Matt, who has known my work for a decade, and it took us both time to understand each other's language. We've learned to say the one pertinent sentence, and then leave the details for the choreographer. When he was doing a dance for nine women holding (dulled, thankfully) butcher knives to the lilting strains of the Blue Danube Waltz (no it wasn't ballet, but it was quite interesting!) I watched it in rehearsal and asked, "Do they move the knives or do the knives move them?" his response was "Don't say anything else." because I had said enough for him to figure out what he wanted to do. (The answer was, the knives moved them, and he made that clear.)

When I was doing a dance for men in '95, he looked at the work in progress and said, "They need to violate each other's space" and then he came up to me and stood an inch away, almost touching. "Don't say anything else." I said.

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I think we have to understand 'editing' in its full sense--i.e., not just cutting but the process of thinking and rethinking one's ideas with the help of interested and/or informed others (the headline's "snip snip" does lead us to the think of the former, I'll grant). Editing a manuscript, for instance, involves suggesting ways in which to help the author's voice sound its best, not just lowering the word count. The article gives a great example of collegial advice-giving--Robert Raushenberg to Trisha Brown, so yes I agree that it's best to have a trusted and/or famously insightful advisor Leigh, you seem to be a reasonable choreographer who is literate and listens. Most choreographers, in my experience--with some wonderful exceptions--don't hear a thing, and bank heavily on the lonely struggling artist thing. What's worse is that no one whould *think* to say anything to them. What I wish the article had time to get into is the lack of a mentoring or apprenticeship period for a young choreographer. Sometimes it seems as if any former dancer--especially with a major company--is allowed the privilege of choreographing for a full company too soon (or directing a company--but that's a whole 'nother thread!). Balllet seems especially prone to this.

Finally, I'm not sure, Leigh, why you think workshopping is inherently a bad idea. After all, nothing obliges you to accept any suggestions, and you could configure the constituency of the workshop as you like (perhaps, say, a group of like-minded choreographers at a similar career-path level, or artists or musicians that you may know. Or--horror of horror--dancers!). Can you say more?

Ray

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Don't worry about earlier discussions, Ray. We get new people all the time, with different experiences and ideas, and I like it when topics are revisted every three months ago. I don't think we've ever had this specific discussion.

Anyone else have ideas on this? You don't have to be a ballet maker to notice that pieces could use a tuck here or a trim there. Or, in some cases, that a ballet has taken a completely wrong turn -- the analogy to writing is a good one, I think. Cut that subplot, either give that character something to do or get rid of him, or even, does Grandpa have to speak in dialect? I can't understand him. All of those have analogs in choreography.

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Ray, I don't think doing workshops is inherently bad, I just dislike them personally! My reasons are obnoxious, frankly. If there are 10 people in the room, I usually find there are about three whose opinions I really want to know - but I'll end up having to sit through all ten. I just work better in a dynamic where I solicit comments from people I trust (they don't have to like it, I just need to trust their eye). As you suggested, I'd be fine on it if I selected the people involved, but that's never been the case.

When I'm choreographing I'm usually open to comments, but honestly, the process is sometimes too concentrated and expensive to allow for lots of outside comments. I need to get the ballet to a certain point (different each time, but at least to a point where what's being shown is coherent) before it gets comments, and I also do better with a short "cool-off" period (I've gotten it down through experience to overnight when necessary) so that I can make changes dispassionately.

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You sound like a very thoughtful choeographer, Leigh. Especially compared to some I've worked with, such as the one known unaffecionately as "Pork Chop" who told the assembled group of 16 of us, "OK, make a star." Between bites, I think.

Ray

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Thanks, Ray. I hope my dancers like working with me, and I think they do, except when I make them nuts.

Back on the topic of editing, some ballets have constant adjustments to them, almost like custom tailoring - the choice of male variations in some movements of Symphony in C, for instance - and other ballets just have constant changes. I don't think Balanchine was ever completely satisfied with the female duet in Agon, it was completely remade in 1960, and changed slightly until the mid-70's. (The original version is lost)

Can anyone tell us about a ballet that was edited before its performance with success? (Alexandra mentioned Symphonic Variations, a famous example) Can anyone think of a ballet they saw that improved in performance over time and revision? Can you think of a ballet that needs "tailoring" and why?

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