Joy Womack

[vipa]

I am always confused about competitions and what is to be gained and lost by a dancer. Joy W. has been a professional for a while now what do these competitions offer her? I honestly don't know.

[vagansmom]

I don't know either, and I thought her classical performance was the weakest I've seen from her. Haven't yet viewed the modern. I also found the white ribbons  highly distracting. When she first came out, I thought they were feathers and couldn't figure out how that went with her costume! Either that was a last minute fix for something that went wrong (am trying to figure out what that could be) or could it be she forgot to pancake them? I've never seen white ribbons sewn on the outside in addition to pink ribbons. Even if they were pink, they still gave an impression of being raggedy.  Is there something I'm missing? Is that a thing?

[Drew]

I also was bothered by Womack's shoe ribbons.  But perhaps it was, as Vagansmom suggested, a quick fix for something that went wrong at the last minute...

 

57 minutes ago, vipa said:

I am always confused about competitions and what is to be gained and lost by a dancer. Joy W. has been a professional for a while now what do these competitions offer her? I honestly don't know.

 

Many things about dance competitions confuse me too.  But I am thinking perhaps the senior dancers (many of whom must be established professionals) think of the Moscow competition as a reputation builder that may open up opportunities for them.  And Womack, in particular, may reasonably feel that doing well at this competition would give her a certain legitimacy with audiences that just remember the 'scandal' associated with her departure from the Bolshoi or who see her as a mere creature of her own social media. 

 

I'm also not sure what role the companies themselves play in encouraging their dancers to compete.

 

Also perhaps not anyone's main motivation for entering but there are $200,000 worth of prizes being dispersed.

 

http://moscowballetcompetition.com/en/news/prizes-and-awards-xiii-international-ballet-competition-and-the-contest-of-choreographers

 

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Drew

[Deflope]

These competitions are an opportunity to get noticed by other, bigger companies. Joy has made no secret of wanting to leave the Kremlin Ballet but so far, there doesn't seem to have been any suitable offers. 

[Jayne]

If you were an AD would you hire her?  Personally I find the oversharing and neuroses on display to be massively distracting from the goal of suspending audience disbelief.  

 

I have my doubts that a North American or Western European AD would want to hire her, especially as she hasn't much recent experience in contemporary, neo-classical or Western European styles (Ashton, Macmillan, Bournonville, etc).  

 

Maybe Houston Ballet?  But Stanton Welch has plenty of talented principals.  And he would not allow independent  vlogging.  

[Natalia]

Apparently the "Mariinsky East" in Vladivostok is aggressively hiring. Maybe she could do well & link herself to the overall Mariinsky enterprise.

[MadameP]

On 6/21/2017 at 11:23 AM, Deflope said:

These competitions are an opportunity to get noticed by other, bigger companies. Joy has made no secret of wanting to leave the Kremlin Ballet but so far, there doesn't seem to have been any suitable offers. 

 

Possibly that is because she is lucky to have the position she does have.  

[vipa]

21 hours ago, Jayne said:

If you were an AD would you hire her?  Personally I find the oversharing and neuroses on display to be massively distracting from the goal of suspending audience disbelief.  

 

I have my doubts that a North American or Western European AD would want to hire her, especially as she hasn't much recent experience in contemporary, neo-classical or Western European styles (Ashton, Macmillan, Bournonville, etc).  

 

Maybe Houston Ballet?  But Stanton Welch has plenty of talented principals.  And he would not allow independent  vlogging.  

See what you mean Jayne. Womack being so openly critical about people and companies would be a red flag. There are a lot of talented dancers out there to hire. Also her limited experience as you described (and I agree with) make her seem a dancer left behind.

[Deflope]

19 hours ago, MadameP said:

 

Possibly that is because she is lucky to have the position she does have.  

 

Its the never ending.  dilemma. Would one rather be a principal in a small company with a small salary or a soloist or corps member at a big company. 

[balletforme]

I've watched a lot of her vlogs and honestly, she seems fragile  I don't think that Russia has been kind to her, honestly, and I just don't think she knows how to handle it all.  She seems very isolated.

[Plisskin]

I finally got a chance to watch the Moscow competition and I wasn't overly impressed with Joy to be honest. There were 2 American girls dancing in the junior division who were much better (one of them won the gold). She should stay were she's at and really appreciate her position at her current company. She's not bad but just kind of vanilla. Kinda bland. Not trying to be harsh when I saw that but it's what I think. I've seen much better dancers languishing away in the corp at ABT. I still enjoy her vlogs when she does do them, which isn't as frequent anymore.

[Fraildove]

Sorry I'm so late commenting. One thought and one interesting observation. Someone asked why she still does all these competitions? Usually it is to gain exposure from other directors and to build your resume, or in the case of having three Mariinsky dancers already highly admired, it's because the company they work for are sponsoring those dancers to add more visibility to the company and show 'dominance' over other companies. But what has me thinking that Joy had an entirely different motivation for entering this particular competition (by the way she is now in korea competing at the Korean International Ballet Competition... ?)? I have an inclination that encouraged by her silver in Varna, her promotion at the Kremlin, I think she truly felt she would be able to win gold and prove to everyone at the Bolshoi she was right and they were not. She would be vindicated. This is hinted at in one of blogs when she talks about dancing at the Stanislavskiy in a tribute to her teacher, who had won an award. She describe how *Yulia Makhalina (99% positive that is who she said, I just cant make myself to go back and watch it) and how she told Joy that Joy was the only real prima on the stage and the only real artist. Um I find that a tad unbelievable and even if true, once again she purposefully alienates her colleagues by claiming how an icon in Russian ballet confirmed her own belief about her talent and superiority. She then goes on to say how Filin was the one who had to present her teacher the award, and how vindicated they both felt by this, that she has come full circle, and that what I'm assuming she assumed must have been a slight humiliation for Sergei, which I seriously doubt as that is far from the character of a man I've know for many years, was deserved by him missing what she could have contributed to the Bolshoi. I also found it interesting that even with the majority of the judges being associated with the Bolshoi, she chose to have her bio for the competition still repeating her story of having been a soloist there and being the first American. The stone cold faces of the jury, especially noted after a very 'un-russian' interpretation of Sleeping Beauty, said volumes. And what was the deal with her tutu in don q? The overlay was flopping around that it became a total distraction and something that is very easily fixed. After she received an honorable mention and diploma there has been almost total radio silence. Which once again makes me think that she was totally unprepared for the outcome. 

 

So the observation goes back to her constantly stretching the truth to a breaking point. In a twitter feed that has now been deleted and on her Facebook she claimed that she was a Laureate of the competition which she is not (and I double checked with my husband to make sure my translation was accurate. He won a bronze medal at another major international competition and he confirmed that Laureate is bestowed specifically to medal winners and anyone the judges deam appropriate. The diploma is something different). She is a diploma holder. By her claiming this it diminishes her colleagues' accomplishments and once again looks like she needs a serious reality check. She was called out on this discrepancy by one of the dancers who did medal.

 

I continue to follow her her every now and again because I still have hope that maybe something will click. So far I've been sadly disappointed and very sad for her.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Fraildove
Spelling, and added one more evidentiary event to why I have drawn the conclusion that I have

[Natalia]

4 hours ago, Fraildove said:

.......(by the way she is now in korea competing at the Korean International Ballet Competition... ?). ......

 

 

 

 

 

Good grief! I suppose that she's already submitted her paperwork for Jackson 2018?

[Plisskin]

20 hours ago, Fraildove said:

Sorry I'm so late commenting. One thought and one interesting observation. Someone asked why she still does all these competitions? Usually it is to gain exposure from other directors and to build your resume, or in the case of having three Mariinsky dancers already highly admired, it's because the company they work for are sponsoring those dancers to add more visibility to the company and show 'dominance' over other companies. But what has me thinking that Joy had an entirely different motivation for entering this particular competition (by the way she is now in korea competing at the Korean International Ballet Competition... ?)? I have an inclination that encouraged by her silver in Varna, her promotion at the Kremlin, I think she truly felt she would be able to win gold and prove to everyone at the Bolshoi she was right and they were not. She would be vindicated. This is hinted at in one of blogs when she talks about dancing at the Stanislavskiy in a tribute to her teacher, who had won an award. She describe how *Yulia Makhalina (99% positive that is who she said, I just cant make myself to go back and watch it) and

 

I hope she had different reasons for participating because if not, she proved to them once again that they made the right choice... Which dancer called her out?

[Jayne]

Perhaps competition allows her to earn much needed prize money?

[Deflope]

On July 1, 2017 at 4:47 AM, Fraildove said:

 She then goes on to say how Filin was the one who had to present her teacher the award, and how vindicated they both felt by this, that she has come full circle, and that what I'm assuming she assumed must have been a slight humiliation for Sergei, 

 

That was one thing that had my head scratching. The award went to her teacher, not her. How does the fact her teacher won an award prove anything about Joy?  

 

One more thing to add. The Kremlin Ballet brought in a female dancer from one of the regions as a Principal, which probably means less performances for Joy.  That's probably another reason to get out of Dodge. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Deflope
Add thoughts

[Natalia]

3 hours ago, Jayne said:

Perhaps competition allows her to earn much needed prize money?

 

Only if she manages to win the top top prize. Otherwise, the prizes barely cover travel expenses, if that.

[aurora]

On 7/1/2017 at 4:47 AM, Fraildove said:

On her Facebook she claimed that she was a Laureate of the competition which she is not (and I double checked with my husband to make sure my translation was accurate. He won a bronze medal at another major international competition and he confirmed that Laureate is bestowed specifically to medal winners and anyone the judges deam appropriate. The diploma is something different). She is a diploma holder. By her claiming this it diminishes her colleagues' accomplishments and once again looks like she needs a serious reality check. She was called out on this discrepancy by one of the dancers who did medal.

 

 

Looking at the website the only mention of Laureate is with regards to diploma winners (choreographers).

But Choreographers area also the only ones mentioned as winning medals. Everyone else is listed simply as Prize I, II, III, diploma.

Since in the choreographer category those things are associated with gold, silver, bronze medals and "title of laureate" I would assume in her place that I had that title, even if it was incorrect.

 

Their published information gives that impression.

 

I'm not defending her, I honestly don't care. But while I'm happy to believe your husband is correct, this seems fairly reasonable a mistake to make (and maybe they should have proofread and edited their English language website while they were at it. The country isn't Chili).

 

[Deflope]

11 minutes ago, aurora said:

Looking at the website the only mention of Laureate is with regards to diploma winners (choreographers).

But Choreographers area also the only ones mentioned as winning medals. Everyone else is listed simply as Prize I, II, III, diploma.

Since in the choreographer category those things are associated with gold, silver, bronze medals and "title of laureate" I would assume in her place that I had that title, even if it was incorrect.

 

Their published information gives that impression.

 

I'm not defending her, I honestly don't care. But while I'm happy to believe your husband is correct, this seems fairly reasonable a mistake to make (and maybe they should have proofread and edited their English language website while they were at it. The country isn't Chili).

 

 

Fraildove is correct. Per the Medici.tv site, Medallists are laureates and diploma winners are diploma holders. 

 

http://www.medici.tv/en/moscowballetcompetition/prizes-and-awards-bolchoi/

 

And in the Russian version of the official site, diploma winners of the choreographer category were called "Diplomanti" instead of "Laureati.  Not sure why the English site translated it that way. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Deflope

[aurora]

4 hours ago, Deflope said:

 

Fraidlove is correct. Per the Medici.tv site, Medallists are laureates and diploma winners are diploma holders. 

 

http://www.medici.tv/en/moscowballetcompetition/prizes-and-awards-bolchoi/

 

I would have assumed that:

http://moscowballetcompetition.com/en/news/prizes-and-awards-xiii-international-ballet-competition-and-the-contest-of-choreographers

which is the website I was looking at, was the official website with the most accurate inforamation, not a beta site run by a tv company.

But the one you link to is certainly much clearer, more specific, and seemingly more accurate.

 

 

 

[Helene]

The current medici.tv is a beta version of a website that's been in existence for nine years under the older versions of the website.  It is not a TV station, but a site dedicated to the classical performance arts, with many live and archived performances, mostly from Europe and Russia.  This is something that there have been many posts wishing for.

 

They are old hands at presenting live competitions -- the Tchaikovsky and the recent Van Cliburn, for example -- providing commentators, interviews, and explicit info on their website of the rules and outcomes of these events.  

[wonderwall]

I just watched a new video from her ("Detox from RU"), and she stated she doesn't think she will be going back to the Kremlin when rehearsals start in August.

[Deflope]

On 7/28/2017 at 1:06 AM, wonderwall said:

I just watched a new video from her ("Detox from RU"), and she stated she doesn't think she will be going back to the Kremlin when rehearsals start in August.

 

Maybe I'm old. Maybe I had an old fashioned codger for a professor for an organizational behavior class in business school but not only am I surprised at her continued public whining, but that her fans think it is perfectly ok to continually trash your employer on social media. 

 

Nevertheless, I am very curious to see where she ends up. Considering her complaint that she had to dance Bayadere two days after getting back from the Korean ballet competition, I would be very surprised if Joy ends up going to a big company, where there are performances every week during peak season (as opposed to every month at the Kremlin). 

 

 

 

[sandik]

1 hour ago, Deflope said:

 

Maybe I'm old. Maybe I had an old fashioned codger for a professor for an organizational behavior class in business school but not only am I surprised at her continued public whining, but that her fans think it is perfectly ok to continually trash your employer on social media. 

 

Nevertheless, I am very curious to see where she ends up. Considering her complaint that she had to dance Bayadere two days after getting back from the Korean ballet competition, I would be very surprised if Joy ends up going to a big company, where there are performances every week during peak season (as opposed to every month at the Kremlin).

 

Last observation first -- there are a lot of companies (Pacific Northwest Ballet among them) that have a semi-monthly schedule -- if she finds a home in one of them, that might be the best fit.

 

Re the first observation -- there has been a lot of discussion in the big political world lately about loyalty.  I won't do my big soapbox speech, since it's far too long, but I agree with you that this is a paradigm shift in the culture.  I'm in a older cohort, and we're really the last of what I think of as mutual loyalty group.  I might work for a single organization for all of my adult life, and in return, I would get financial and personal consideration (retirement and health benefits, holiday time, family/medical leave time, recognition for institutional knowledge...)  Now we're in what I think of as the DIY employment world.  You are responsible to arrange all of those things yourself (invest your own retirement savings, find your own insurance, etc) and your long tenure with an organization isn't a benefit to them, but you're free to move around from job to job, without any sense of obligation to your employer.  I'm told there are positive things on all sides of this dynamic, but like most people, I tend to think that the familiar model is the best one.

 

[Fleurdelis]

It's sweepstakes time! I wonder which world ballet company will be fast and lucky enough to snag her. My bet is between POB, where they certainly know a talent when they see one, or the Bolshoi, under its new dynamic leadership. Maybe, just maybe, she gets the recognition she deserves back home in the US. Or is it too much to ask of plodding US ballet theater management teams?