80 replies to this topic

[carbro]

It also depends when the fall out happens.  One of ABT's Odiles, in her New York debut many years ago, finished with a 16 count manege of pique turns.  That was also, as I recall, that dancer's swan song in the role.

[MissChristine]

alexandra, on Jun 30 2001, 08:30 PM, said:

I once would have argued that you should keep them for the reason Legnani put them in -- it kept away pretenders (those who wanted the Ballerina's Crown without having the technique necessary to wear it).  But nowadays, when probably everyone in the corps can do the 32 fouettes, but perhaps not much of the rest of the role, I'd say, chuck it if necessary.

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Steve Keeley, on Jul 1 2001, 01:46 AM, said:

OK, I'll be the stickler here.  If you can't do 32 fouettes, you don't dance Odile.  If you can't hold a balance in attitude without falling off pointe, you don't dance Aurora. And so on...

~Steve

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I agree that nowadays almost everyone can do the fouettes and that is why I side with Steve on this.
When you've got people in the corps that can do it why not have the principal put in a bit more effort to get them down properly?
If you can't do them then you don't need to be dancing the role of Odile.

[tangofiction]

Ancient topic, but I hope nobody minds if I add my two cents...

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Has anyone had a fouettee-disaster: fallen over or bumped into the scenery or swirled herself into the wings?

I've seen a spectacular one, unfortunately. It happened during the English National Ballet's tour in 1999, at the Sydney Entertainment Centre (which admittedly does have a notoriously slippery stage). They were doing a fairly standard Swan Lake, but doubled in size to make it an "Arena Production" -- a terrible concept that turns ballet into a circus. I can't remember who danced Odette/Odile on the night, but after a handful of fouettes, she lost her centre and fell over. She stayed on the floor for a while, then struggled back up and finished the remaining couple of fouettes, switching to her working leg.

It might have been the arena setup, or just the size of the place, but it made for a pretty dsimal experience overall (not just the fall, the entire performance). I admit I've been prejudiced against the ENB ever since...

[bart]

Thanks, tangofiction.  Great story.

It's good to see this thread revived.  Especially for those of us who, while diligently counting "26 ... 27 ... 28" etc. -- along with almost everyone else in the audience -- have felt slightly foolish.  

Anyone else have any new, interesting 32-fouettee stories?

[fandeballet]

I pesonally don't count.  If you can do 15, 20 or 25 fouettees and do and finish them cleanly, along with anything else you do to fill in after the fouettees, is fine with me.

[Figurante]

I agree with some other members. The 32 fouette is a staple. Granted, half of the dancers in North America can barely do 16, but still. It is so well known, that I actually disagree with choreographers/directors who change the turns into something else because their dancer can't pull them off. If they can't do them.. why are they doing the role?

This past season, I saw ABT do Swan Lake in the new Miami Performing Arts Center, and pretty much flatlined when Paloma did her fouettes for Odile. I was outraged. She got around okay, but who honestly wants to look at some just THROWING (and I mean throwing) her arms around?! Her entire torso was crooked, her passe in more of a jazz pirouette position, etc. It was a travesty.
now, someone like Ashely Bouder can REALLY do fouettes; and with integrity.

[carbro]

Figurante, on Jun 25 2007, 03:17 PM, said:

. . . [W]ho honestly wants to look at some just THROWING (and I mean throwing) her arms around?!

Not you, not me, but I'll bet she finished to rousing cheers.

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now, someone like Ashely Bouder can REALLY do fouettes. . .

"Someone like Ashley Bouder?"  Name one!  I dare you!  

[Figurante]

carbro, on Jun 25 2007, 04:09 PM, said:

Figurante, on Jun 25 2007, 03:17 PM, said:

. . . [W]ho honestly wants to look at some just THROWING (and I mean throwing) her arms around?!

Not you, not me, but I'll bet she finished to rousing cheers.

Quote

now, someone like Ashely Bouder can REALLY do fouettes. . .

"Someone like Ashley Bouder?"  Name one!  I dare you!  

Haha! Cheers to that!

[vipa]

carbro, on Jun 25 2007, 04:09 PM, said:

Figurante, on Jun 25 2007, 03:17 PM, said:

. . . [W]ho honestly wants to look at some just THROWING (and I mean throwing) her arms around?!

Not you, not me, but I'll bet she finished to rousing cheers.

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now, someone like Ashely Bouder can REALLY do fouettes. . .

"Someone like Ashley Bouder?"  Name one!  I dare you!  

I've seen  S. Sylvie do beautiful fouettes and of course there is G. Murphy.  I love, love, love Bouder but other people can do fouettes.
Or am I missing the point.

[aurora]

vipa, on Jun 25 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

carbro, on Jun 25 2007, 04:09 PM, said:

Figurante, on Jun 25 2007, 03:17 PM, said:

. . . [W]ho honestly wants to look at some just THROWING (and I mean throwing) her arms around?!

Not you, not me, but I'll bet she finished to rousing cheers.

Quote

now, someone like Ashely Bouder can REALLY do fouettes. . .

"Someone like Ashley Bouder?"  Name one!  I dare you!  

I've seen  S. Sylvie do beautiful fouettes and of course there is G. Murphy.  I love, love, love Bouder but other people can do fouettes.
Or am I missing the point.

probably ;) (i assume its that there is no one like Bouder!) but I'll pipe up and add Nina Ananiashvilli! Not tons of triples and quadruples but clean, gorgeous, FAST fouettes! And the ones in Don Q with hands on hips (see youtube) are just beautiful.

[carbro]

vipa, on Jun 25 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

I love, love, love Bouder but other people can do fouettes.
Or am I missing the point.

I was teasing Figurante on her phrase "someone like Bouder," because while Murphy can probably out-fouette her, as a total dancer Bouder is, I suspect, peerless these days.

[drb]

carbro, on Jun 25 2007, 11:48 PM, said:

... as a total dancer Bouder is, I suspect, peerless these days.

I would not require 32 or even any fouettees for an Odile.  To do so would have deprived Muscovites of about 900 Swan Lakes with Maya Plisetskaya (well some New Yorkers too, including me).  And if NYCB's beloved little Imp announced before her next Swan Lake that she would spin sitting on a swivel chair instead, I'd be first in line to buy a ticket (well, more precisely second, as I'm sure I'd find carbro already there before me)!

[tangofiction]

I never used to count, but after seeing the ENB disaster, I've started doing it as a sort of nervous tick.

I do like the fouettes, but as others said above, Maya Plisetskaya didn't do them in "Swan Lake" (on principle, I think) and she's my favourite Odette/Odile of all time. Then again, Plisetskaya is just in a class of her own.

[drb]

tangofiction, on Jun 26 2007, 09:34 AM, said:

I never used to count, but after seeing the ENB disaster, I've started doing it as a sort of nervous tick.

I do like the fouettes, but as others said above, Maya Plisetskaya didn't do them in "Swan Lake" (on principle, I think) and she's my favourite Odette/Odile of all time. Then again, Plisetskaya is just in a class of her own.

I count them too, and really enjoy them most of the time.  Maya did them the first few times, but once she owned the role she dumped them.  Her reason was that she'd been too lazy (during WWII!) to take the train to Leningrad, where the best teacher for fouettees was, so never learned to do them properly. (from her autobigraphy)

[Hans]

As much as I love fouettés (they are my ballet guilty pleasure) I never count them.  As long as they work with the music, it is fine with me.