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Must Odile do fouettees?


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#76 mbdance

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 01:17 AM

I would think so. I'm just saying that if a dancer consistently cannot do a step as difficult as that they shouldn't perform it on stage. However, that ususally happens during the end of a dancer's career. That's just my opinion.

#77 bart

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:07 PM

This isn't Odile. Nor is it, to be honest, Swan Lake. It's not even a woman. :wink: But for those who want to see a fast, powerful fouette sequence from Paquita, I suggest Olga Supphosova from the Ballet Trockadero de Montecarlo production, about 1 and a half minutes into this YouTube video:
http://www.lankou.co...h?v=URk7oCa69yY

It does make one feel that an attitude of feminine triumphalism ("I LOVE this power!") makes the fouettes work best. Is that the case with Odile, too? (It helps that Supphosova's partner is a dimwitted young man who makes much too much out of his VERY long sequence of simple changements immediately following her triumph.)

#78 michaelbaker

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:53 AM

Sorry, I don't buy that Plisetskaya couldn't do the 32 turns. Look at her in the Little Humpbacked Horse video, and you'll see that she tosses them off without so much as a drop of perspiration. Where do you get this idea she couldn't do them? I think this idea was spread in Makarova's book in the 70's. If anything, Makarova had a hard time doing them... she was a magnificent dancer but not the strongest technician. Correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the version of Swan Lake Plisetskaya danced was the version by Gorsky from the 1920's which didn't use the 32 fouettés and that this had nothing to do with Plisetskaya.



was reading through peoples' comments on Odile and her fouettes when I came across someone's comments on Makarova. She came to guest with my company in Swan Lake and I consider her to be the definative Odette/Odile but I do concede that there were nights where she struggled with those damned fouettes. It didn't alter the fact though that she was one of the greatest ballerinas of her generation.

someone else asked what do ballerinas substitute fouettes with (apart from obvious pique turns). someone at the Royal Ballet (i think it was nadia nerina) reportedly did 32 entrechat six instead. she could do the fouettes effortlessly as well.

thanks for the great site

regards
Michael

#79 Mel Johnson

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:33 AM

Yes, it was Nadia. She was one POWERFUL dancer, and she let the entrechats-sixes into the Black Swan coda as a commentary on Nureyev's interpolation of the same device into Giselle earlier that week. I don't believe that she did it more than once. That it is still remarked upon to this day is an indication of the effectiveness of her protest. There's nothing quite like peer group pressure.

#80 Sacto1654

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 05:30 AM

If I remember correctly, the 32 fouettes in the "Black Swan pas de deux" from Act II of the Petipa/Ivanov version (Act III as it's known in the West) was put in to showcase the dancing ability of Pierina Legnani, who was the prima ballerina assoluta of the Imperial Mariinsky Ballet at the time it was first performed in 1895--she was one of the first ballerinas to do all 32 fouettes without stopping.

It's so hard to do that I've only seen a very small of ballerinas on video do it: Ulyana Lopatkina and Svetlana Zakharova on DVD home video, Alicia Alonso, Maria Alexandrova, and a couple of others on online video.

#81 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 07:27 AM

Tricks are not ballet. True. But both psychological interpretation/artistic maturity AND command and mastery over tricks-(32 fouettees included)-have been exposed many times out there as a strong reality, so when one comes across a ballerina-(or a dancer for that matters)-who struggles with one of the two aspects, she gets hard to swallow...

#82 kfw

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:13 PM

Plisetskaya did piqué en dedans turns in a circle. While this is not at all the same thing in terms of difficulty, I would rather see well done piqués than badly executed fouettés.

 

In her new book Balanchine and the Lost Muse (Lidia Ivanova), Elizabeth Kendall writes of Olga Preobrazhenskaya that

 

Preobrazhenskaya could do Swan Lake's fast fouetté turns in place that Kshesinskaya was famous for, but she disdained such "tricks." In place of Kshesinskaya's evil Black Swan's thirty-two center-stage revolutions, Preobrazhenskaya performed instead a fast circle of piqué turns, which she thought truer to the drama. Preobrazhenskaya's dequence didn't stop-time the action with incessant spinning, but enclosed the infatuated prince as if in a circle of deceit. 

 

 

I love that last mental image. I also love the fact that a dancer would have the courage and imagination to personalize a key scene like that. 



#83 Drew

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:56 PM

 

Plisetskaya did piqué en dedans turns in a circle. While this is not at all the same thing in terms of difficulty, I would rather see well done piqués than badly executed fouettés.

 

In her new book Balanchine and the Lost Muse (Lidia Ivanova), Elizabeth Kendall writes of Olga Preobrazhenskaya that

 

Preobrazhenskaya could do Swan Lake's fast fouetté turns in place that Kshesinskaya was famous for, but she disdained such "tricks." In place of Kshesinskaya's evil Black Swan's thirty-two center-stage revolutions, Preobrazhenskaya performed instead a fast circle of piqué turns, which she thought truer to the drama. Preobrazhenskaya's dequence didn't stop-time the action with incessant spinning, but enclosed the infatuated prince as if in a circle of deceit. 

 

 

I love that last mental image. I also love the fact that a dancer would have the courage and imagination to personalize a key scene like that. 

 

 

It's interesting that (according to this account) she disdained such 'tricks' but several of her most famous pupils (the baby ballerinas) were famous for doing exactly that particular trick -- even doubling down on it (so to speak) -- and when they were still just barely out of her studio.



#84 bart

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:41 PM

Picque turns after a few fouettes is also characateristic of Balancine.  In other ballets he uses it as a way to get the dancer into the wings, if my memory is correct.  I like the Preobazhenskaya's idea of encircling the poor prince.  (With each circle tigher than the one before, I hope). 



#85 Drew

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:50 PM

I confess I have never thought pique turns looked any less (or more) like "tricks" than fouettes (albeit easier ones, at least based on the number of ballerinas I've seen who can do them well)...As discussed above, in Act III of Swan Lake the fouettes can be thought of as playing a role in hypnotizing/seducing the prince, an idea which seems to me at least as plausible as thinking of the piques as encircling him. (Was he on stage?).  It really depends on what the ballerina does with these steps.




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