Jump to content


This site uses cookies. By using this site, you agree to accept cookies, unless you've opted out. (US government web page with instructions to opt out: http://www.usa.gov/optout-instructions.shtml)

Sergei Filin Attacked


  • Please log in to reply
652 replies to this topic

#286 puppytreats

puppytreats

    Gold Circle

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 751 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:42 PM


I will just say that if the police had investigated the cyber attack on Yanin properly in all likelihood none of this would have happened, factions are inevitable when an injustice was not just ignored but possibly condoned.

I find it odd that so many writing here immediately assume that all guilt is down to Tsiskaridze, has anyone even considered that his criticism of the Bolshoi management might actually be justified?




Helene has mostly addressed this, but since I thought perhaps this was probably an allusion to what I wrote above about Iksanov and Tsiskaridze, let me clarify. I don't "assume" any guilt down to Tsiskaridze at all. Some of his criticisms of the management may be justified. (I doubt all, given the excellent state of the company's dancing in recent years; management is clearly doing something right). I simply was making the point about Iksanov's statements about Tsiskaridze. I find them more understandable now. Why? If the criminal(s) had a some kind relationship with Tsiskaridze or his "faction" at the Bolshoi, then it's quite plausible that his remarks and attitude-however unintentionally--influenced them and if, as I think likely from Filin's comments that he "knew" who was responsible for the attack, Iksanov knew, too, at least who the prime suspect was, then that knowledge might have fueled his remarks about Tsiskaridze having contributed to the context in which the attacks occurred (because of Tsiskaridze's support for Vorontzova etc. etc.). That, puppytreats, is the answer to your question as well.

It's nothing to do with assuming "guilt" and certainly not legal guilt. I would add my agreement with the position that questions of guilt in relation to the attack on Filin have nothing to do with whether or not ANYONE'S criticisms of management are justified. Even if all complaints against management were justified, then that would not in any way justify the criminal attack on Filin.


Am I correct in reading that you suggest no discussion by anyone except management itself, since you indicate that expression of dissatisfaction by dancers and teachers, even if correct, and even if between a teacher and student behind closed doors, creates an "atmosphere" in which people feel they can or should physically attack someone?

#287 Drew

Drew

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,296 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:53 PM



I will just say that if the police had investigated the cyber attack on Yanin properly in all likelihood none of this would have happened, factions are inevitable when an injustice was not just ignored but possibly condoned.

I find it odd that so many writing here immediately assume that all guilt is down to Tsiskaridze, has anyone even considered that his criticism of the Bolshoi management might actually be justified?




Helene has mostly addressed this, but since I thought perhaps this was probably an allusion to what I wrote above about Iksanov and Tsiskaridze, let me clarify. I don't "assume" any guilt down to Tsiskaridze at all. Some of his criticisms of the management may be justified. (I doubt all, given the excellent state of the company's dancing in recent years; management is clearly doing something right). I simply was making the point about Iksanov's statements about Tsiskaridze. I find them more understandable now. Why? If the criminal(s) had a some kind relationship with Tsiskaridze or his "faction" at the Bolshoi, then it's quite plausible that his remarks and attitude-however unintentionally--influenced them and if, as I think likely from Filin's comments that he "knew" who was responsible for the attack, Iksanov knew, too, at least who the prime suspect was, then that knowledge might have fueled his remarks about Tsiskaridze having contributed to the context in which the attacks occurred (because of Tsiskaridze's support for Vorontzova etc. etc.). That, puppytreats, is the answer to your question as well.

It's nothing to do with assuming "guilt" and certainly not legal guilt. I would add my agreement with the position that questions of guilt in relation to the attack on Filin have nothing to do with whether or not ANYONE'S criticisms of management are justified. Even if all complaints against management were justified, then that would not in any way justify the criminal attack on Filin.


Am I correct in reading that you suggest no discussion by anyone except management itself, since you indicate that expression of dissatisfaction by dancers and teachers, even if correct, and even if between a teacher and student behind closed doors, creates an "atmosphere" in which people feel they can or should physically attack someone?


No you are not. I said nothing of the kind.

First and foremost: I was making a remark about Iksanov and how I better understood why he has spoken the way he has.

Secondly I was clarifying that a person's guilt or innocence in a case of grievous bodily injury has nothing to do with whether or not they had legitimate criticisms of the person they attacked. At least in most legal systems with which I am familiar. I realize there are categories such as "crime of passion" and "mitigating circumstances." I hardly think they apply here but I am not a Russian jurist.

As for criticizing management in one's workplace, I've been known to do it myself.

As for whether or not factions at the Bolshoi in general and Tsiskaridze in particular should do some soul-searching, I leave that to them.

#288 aurora

aurora

    Silver Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 677 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

This is how Dmitrichenko looked in custody in today's edition of the Moscow Times: http://www.themoscow...ack/476624.html.


Can we not wildly speculate that he looks beaten? He doesn't look happy, but I don't think people usually do when they have been arrested, charged with a serious crime and spent many hours being interrogated. In our system or any other criminal system. I don't think it is what you would call a pleasant experience. [nb: Cygnet, I realize you just posted the image with no weighted commentary]

#289 volcanohunter

volcanohunter

    Sapphire Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,049 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:23 PM


Later, all three defendants in the case wrote a confession.


Anyone else find this strange? In England (and US?) arrested suspects are read their rights and told they can stay silent. I have never heard of someone confessing before speaking to a lawyer. No mention of bail either. Confession made under duress?


The BBC has translated the video confessions without additional voiceover commentary. I notice that the alleged attacker, who has prior "experience" with the criminal justice system, does decline to answer questions.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-21681273

#290 puppytreats

puppytreats

    Gold Circle

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 751 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:30 PM

Iksanov said the acid attack occurred because Tsiskaridze went unpunished. Why should he have been punished? With respect to the issue of the deceptive petition, I understand his point about misconduct and punishment, but I am unsure that this creates an environment condusive to what happened to Filin, as Iksanov claims. In any event, why would his support for his student be problematic, or contribute to this environment? One can imagine that he objected to Filin's wanting to take his student away, and this caused tensions, but again, does this merit punishment? Does Iksanov think he merits punishment for criticism about waste and building problems with the reconstruction?

#291 aurora

aurora

    Silver Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 677 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:56 PM

An article discussing the possible motives and complex interpersonal issues of the case (at least as they appear at this stage):
http://www.nytimes.c...attack.html?hpw

#292 Drew

Drew

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,296 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:58 PM

Puppytreats: I have not said that there is anything wrong with Tsiskaridze supporting his student. I have not said he should be punished for anything he said. I made a different point--and tried (and evidently failed) to make it with some precision. I won't repeat because there's no evidence I would be successful this time around either. I will only add that saying one "understands" xyz does not entail all the consequences your remarks suggest that you are concerned about.

#293 Helene

Helene

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,349 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:07 PM

Where did Iksanov say the acid attack occurred because Tsiskaridze went unpunished? I haven't seen any comments where Iskanov specifically addressed Tsiskaridze's student at all. Iksanov said that Tsiskaridze helped to foster an atmosphere in the theater in which the attack could take place in an interview in February.

"I don't blame that particular crime on him, but I'm accusing Nikolai of escalating the situation at the theater, of putting psychological pressure on the theater's staff and management, on Filin, on myself and teachers," he said.


http://bigstory.ap.o...-chief-detained

Perhaps Tsiskaridze should have been fired from the theater and paid out his contract like Volchkova, but they have Grigorivich there, and his is the name invoked in the description of all that was great and good at the Bolshoi.

What is disturbing is that according to the "New York Times" the police are calling this a closed case, when Filin has said that these are not the only ones likely to be involved and people who've know Dmitrichenko have said that it's uncharacteristic of him to plot. There's still not talk of the cyberattacks on Yanin or Filin.

#294 mussel

mussel

    Bronze Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 477 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

If this report says anything that the newspaper accounts above mentioned do not say,perhaps one of our Russian-speaking board members can let us know?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGcABH4F7qA


After the video starts click on the close capiton cc symbol and click translate caption, then select the language you want to translate into.

#295 elena

elena

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 83 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:28 PM

This whole situation is beyond my comprehension... all I can feel is sadness for Filin who is still battling to save his eyesight and sadness for the Bolshoi whose image has been tarnished. Dmitrichenko has thrown away his life and career for what, and Vorontsova will have this shadow hanging on her always (if in fact she did not know anything). I really don't know what to think or say about Tsiskaridze so I will leave that to the rest of you and read in silence.

I really would like to think there are no more people involved in this situation.

#296 canbelto

canbelto

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,902 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

People might all of a sudden find this video of interest:



#297 Amy Reusch

Amy Reusch

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,781 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:01 PM

Is that Filin & Vorontsova? No.. The haircut threw me... It is Vorontsova & Denis Rodkin.

She is lovely in th clips below... This story gets worse and worse...
http://m.youtube.com...XU&feature=plpp

#298 Jayne

Jayne

    Gold Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 879 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:01 PM

Perhaps Tsiskaridze should have been fired from the theater and paid out his contract like Volchkova, but they have Grigorivich there, and his is the name invoked in the description of all that was great and good at the Bolshoi.

What is disturbing is that according to the "New York Times" the police are calling this a closed case, when Filin has said that these are not the only ones likely to be involved and people who've know Dmitrichenko have said that it's uncharacteristic of him to plot. There's still not talk of the cyberattacks on Yanin or Filin.

I could be wrong, but as I recall, Ms Volchkova sued the Bolshoi and won some sort of settlement. I read another article from yesterday's links (will try to find it) that the police wanted to wait to make the arrests, so they could continue their probe. The inference is that they wanted to see if there was a higher chain of command for this event, I assume they wanted to continue to monitor communications of the 3 suspects. But the Ministry of Justice pressed them to make arrests now.

Time will tell, sometimes crimes are not "grand conspiracies" and crimes of passion are pretty common motives for violence. Our beloved artform celebrate them! The interrogation may have focused on Miss Vorontsova, and Mr. Dmitrichenko may have taken the fall in order to protect her from being implicated / railroaded.

BTW I don't think she is fat at all, but she does look like her musculature is larger when she is pictured next to the stringbeans that are currently in fashion. If you look at old pictures from the 1960's Bolshoi, she would have fit right in (and considering this was Grigorovich's best time at the Bolshoi, I can understand why she would shine in his ballets).

[font='Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"Alas, that love, so gentle in his view, Should be so tyrannous and rough in proof" Romeo & Juliet, Wm. Shakespeare[/font]

#299 Helene

Helene

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,349 posts

Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:44 PM

The settlement was that Volochkova is on the roster and is paid, but the court couldn't make management cast her or include her in theater life. Effectively, her contract is being bought out over whatever period the court awarded her. I don't see what would have stopped them from doing the same to Tsiskaridze, legally, at least. However, as long as Grigorovich is there, what would the point be?

When is this report from? She doesn't look fat to me, but I find the current aesthetic ridiculous, although without it, Carla Korbes wouldn't be in Seattle, and in her case, it was a silver lining for us out here. Are these clips recent? She's exquisite in them. The newspaper articles quote people saying that she had gained weight as she matured, and Gennadi Yanin is being interviewed, I'm not sure in what capacity.

#300 Jayne

Jayne

    Gold Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 879 posts

Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:05 AM

Apparently she lobbied for O/O in December, and was told to "look in the mirror". This is her in December:



I observe that her upper legs are slightly thicker than the super skinny girls. I also observe her strong jumps, turns, and control - all assisted by that extra 5-10 lbs of muscle. If she'd been born 30 years earlier, she'd be a star.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Help support Ballet Alert! and Ballet Talk for Dancers year round by using this search box for your amazon.com purchases (adblockers may block display):