Jump to content


This site uses cookies. By using this site, you agree to accept cookies, unless you've opted out. (US government web page with instructions to opt out: http://www.usa.gov/optout-instructions.shtml)

Skorik


  • Please log in to reply
443 replies to this topic

#76 cubanmiamiboy

cubanmiamiboy

    Diamonds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,269 posts

Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:54 AM

If we're talking canonical moves, I'd say this is more important than the fouettes, since Petipa DID choreograph it [which he did not do with the fouettes -- other brilliant moves for 32 counts will do to that music, as Plisetskaya proved with her pique turns].


This issue remains a mistery to me,as the 32 fouettes are indeed notated in Stepanov, although this fact doesn't mean necessarily that Petipa was the originator, but the ballerina herself.

#77 Natalia

Natalia

    Rubies Circle

  • Foreign Correspondent
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,398 posts

Posted 21 October 2012 - 01:51 AM

Back to the Odile Variation's fondu/double-frappe 'grace note' step. Checking my 'sources' I see that the following all did it correctly (although seldom as clearly and cleanly as Marianella Nunez in above clip:


Complete

Kirov-Mariinsky version by K. Sergeyev Dudinskaya (1953 film), Evteyeva (1960s film), Chenchikova ('86 Wolf Trap), and '04 Vostrotina (she alone, among 3 debutantes that summer - Bolshakova and Somova the others -- did the steps, fully & beautifully). Terioshkina did one passage in her debut, only after the very first series of pirouettes...but she did one. So much for the 'grace note' not being a part of recent Mariinsky traditions!

POB-Nureyev version seems to have the move, as both Guillem and Letestu (in commercial DVD) did it.

NYCB-Martins-after-Petipa version - Miranda Weese did it for PBS telecast!

Royal Ballet/1985 'Harvard Notes' version: in addition to Nunez, Bussell did it (and partial Sarah Lamb, as per below)...but another Royal lady, Cojocaru, did not do it in the Romanian TV telecast of Swan Lake...but maybe that's because she was in Romania?


Partial (just the first one...performed easier tendu into developpe a la second in all other sequences): Kirov-M's Terioshkina in her debut and, at RB, Sarah Lamb.


Done with a twist:

Frankfurt/Neumeier version: Eliz. Loscavio - a single frappe (not double)

Berlin/Malakhov version: Stephie Scherzer - does the 'easier' developpe a la 2nde...but throws in a rond-de-jambe as the leg is going up!

The gal who did it all, in all variations:

POB's Pontois is the fanciest of all (in early 80s gala with Dupond): like Scherzer, the double ronds de jambe during developpe, preceded by the double-frappe! All of this preceded by incredible pirouette sequence of a double-pirouette into triple-pirouette in attitude. (Whew!) Not as smooth as Nunez but still quite impressive.



I stopped checking half-way though collection; that was enough of an unscientific sampling. There may be others.

Note: All Bolshoi ladies in the past 50+ years perform the Grigorovich Odile variation, with altogether different choreography and even music. The same 'Grigorovich music' is heard in the Bourmeister version of the Odile solo, as we can see in films of the Stanislavsky, La Scala and the pre-Nureyev POB version (which is still performed occasionally).

Edited to add Dudinskaya and Pontois.

#78 Mme. Hermine

Mme. Hermine

    Emeralds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,757 posts

Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:10 AM

in 1990, when sergeyev and dudinskaya came to boston to stage what was known as the 'glasnost' swan lake first cast o/o was nina a. in those 1990 performances she did the non-bolshoi version of the variation and included the little rond de jambe then.

#79 Mme. Hermine

Mme. Hermine

    Emeralds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,757 posts

Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:11 AM

It is amazing that Fateyev slandered his own dancers. Very strange.


mauvais gout.

#80 Natalia

Natalia

    Rubies Circle

  • Foreign Correspondent
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,398 posts

Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:46 AM

in 1990, when sergeyev and dudinskaya came to boston to stage what was known as the 'glasnost' swan lake first cast o/o was nina a. in those 1990 performances she did the non-bolshoi version of the variation and included the little rond de jambe then.


Ah, interesting. In the two films I have of her in this (from full ballet in Perm and the pdd as part of a gala), she does the Grig.

Edited to add: I checked the film of Dudinskaya's own Odile in the 1953 'Masters of Soviet Ballet' and indeed she did the double-frappe grace note (!). So this totally debunks any theory that the Soviet-Kirov tradition does not include it...Dudinskaya, Evteyeva, Chenchikova, and Vostrotina in the last 10 yrs (and a partial Terioshkina).

#81 Mme. Hermine

Mme. Hermine

    Emeralds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,757 posts

Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:17 AM

at the time in 1990 one assumption was that it was so unusual for the bolshoi dancers to work with sergeyev and dudinskaya that they would do what they were asked out of respect. indeed in 1992 when it was done again she went back to the version you refer to; by that time he had passed away.

#82 canbelto

canbelto

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,901 posts

Posted 21 October 2012 - 12:46 PM

Interesting side by side comparison of Lopatkina in this variation: she does the step in 2006 but not in 1995:



#83 canbelto

canbelto

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,901 posts

Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:28 PM

I found another great video of Margot Fonteyn whizzing through the variation like it was child's play:



#84 Paul Parish

Paul Parish

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,925 posts

Posted 21 October 2012 - 08:27 PM

Thank you all for your thoughts on these matters. Especially Natalia, for that splendid collection of links, but really all of y'all, even those not sympathetic to my view, since it's such a stimulating conversation, and you all know so much.

Birdsall, you raise a point about why the men's variations -- I have not heard that argument, but I remember hearing it was common knowledge that Petipa did not choreograph the men's variations, but let the men choreograph their own most effective solos.



#85 Mme. Hermine

Mme. Hermine

    Emeralds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,757 posts

Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:01 PM

in the film with anthony dowell, makarova does not do it.

#86 Natalia

Natalia

    Rubies Circle

  • Foreign Correspondent
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,398 posts

Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:35 AM

in the film with anthony dowell, makarova does not do it.


Right. And she doesn't teach it to Ayupova when she coaches her in one of those late-80s docum films. Thanks for the Fonteyn link. Fonteyn comes closest to the 'fancy melange' of the Pontois version, except that Pontois does the 3ple attitude piroettes before the 'grace note.' Interesting that Fonteyn does little hops onto pointe in her supporting leg. I wonder if the little added features by Fonteyn reflect her coaching sessions in Paris with the famous Petipa-era ballerinas durng the 1940s and 50s? (Preo, Kchessinskaya, Egorova)

#87 Birdsall

Birdsall

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,339 posts

Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:04 AM



Birdsall, you raise a point about why the men's variations -- I have not heard that argument, but I remember hearing it was common knowledge that Petipa did not choreograph the men's variations, but let the men choreograph their own most effective solos.

Paul, I have no clue and don't know anything! LOL

I simply watched the wonderful video by PNB "After Petipa" that Aurora posted above. In it Doug Fullington (dance historian) tells a story about how a ballerina did not want to dance a certain variation, and to get her to do it (my interpretation), Petipa told her that if she doesn't dance it then people will think she can't dance it. And then Fullington goes on to give that as a possible theory as to why the women's variations are often the same now as they are in the original notations in contrast to the male variations which have changed wildly. But he basically implied this was his theory. But obviously some things do change over time (at least in some companies) as we have seen in this topic. This is all very fascinating!!!



#88 Birdsall

Birdsall

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,339 posts

Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:06 AM

By the way, Paul, which performances did you attend in California? Which one had Ivanova switch her role as the Little Swan? A friend of mine wants to figure out the casting. I tried to private message you, but it says you can't get private messages.

#89 cubanmiamiboy

cubanmiamiboy

    Diamonds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,269 posts

Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:52 AM

This whole variations issue is always very diffuse. It is well known that ballerinas could interpolate their own stuff in given ballets, many times from other works, and also that Petipa indeed allowed many of them to use their own ideas. In any case, here's Alonso rendition of the solo, in the very early 60's...still fresh from what she was dancing in NYC at the time...



#90 Natalia

Natalia

    Rubies Circle

  • Foreign Correspondent
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,398 posts

Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:14 AM

Thanks, cubanmiamiboy. Alonso's is one of the clips that I checked last Saturday. She, like several others not listed, did not do the 'double-frappe, fondu grace note moves' in between the pirouette....but, oh my, what pirouettes! A number of ladies seem to emphasize the pirouettes portion and use the measures in-between almost as a rest. Alonso is the only one with the releve-arabesques before and after. Believe me, I watch 50+ variations this past weekend. Thank goodness they are DVDs and not tapes!

By the way, don't the words 'double-frappe, fondu' make you want to run to Starbucks?


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Help support Ballet Alert! and Ballet Talk for Dancers year round by using this search box for your amazon.com purchases (adblockers may block display):