Birdsall

Skorik

477 posts in this topic

Paul,

Here is a pic a friend sent me from California. This might help you identify the one you mean. In this pic the second swan is Ivanova. Is that the dancer you were referring to that you thought was wonderful or are you talking about the first one who is Chmil ?according to my friend who took the pictures and was introduced to them by a Russian speaking friend...that friend said the Little Swans were from left to right Chmil, Ivanova, a girl from Moscow, and Shrinkina.

Share this post


Link to post

I actually have seen Somova (everyone's exhibit A for the prosecution)

rofl.GIF

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps her promotion has something to do with the five pregancies among the senior members of the company.

Share this post


Link to post

Birdsall -- my friend said one of the cygnets was ill that night and Ivanova was the first one out.

Thanks for putting up the picture. it's the feet I would recognize her by, not the face -- the way she did coupe, the way she shaped her pas de chats was what was remarkable....

Leonid of course has a point -- with so many at the top of the hierarchy out, slots have opened up that have to be filled.

It's also the case that the movie has given Skoryk a following, and dancers with a following will pull people into the theater....

There are always many factors. Ballet, like opera, is a Gesammtkunstwerk. The Russians use the word spektaklo [sp?, which means moving picture -- so the dancer's look is super-important. What you see is what you get. Vaganova herself was not a pretty girl, and she only made ballerina at the very end of her career, through the force and clarity of the way she moved, which was itself fascinating and made her beautiful when she moved. She was able to analyze this and pass on to others through her teaching....

Share this post


Link to post

Birdsall -- my friend said one of the cygnets was ill that night and Ivanova was the first one out.

Thanks for putting up the picture. it's the feet I would recognize her by, not the face -- the way she did coupe, the way she shaped her pas de chats was what was remarkable....

Leonid of course has a point -- with so many at the top of the hierarchy out, slots have opened up that have to be filled.

It's also the case that the movie has given Skoryk a following, and dancers with a following will pull people into the theater....

There are always many factors. Ballet, like opera, is a Gesammtkunstwerk. THe Russians use hte word spektaklo [sp?, which means moving picture -- so the dancer's look is super-important. What you see is what you get. ]Vaganova herself was not a pretty girl, and she only made ballerina at the very end of her career, through the force and clarity of the way she moved, which was itself fascinating and made her beautiful when she moved. She was able to analyze this and pass on to others through her teaching....

Okay, that explains the discrepancy about the performance.

I agree with you. Beauty is a factor in ballet. I think there is some wiggle room however. You can have a distinctive look that some may not exactly find beautiful but intriguing. I find Tereshkina in that category. I think she has a unique look that has an attractive quality especially when combined with her beautiful dancing. She has an interesting look, but I don't think her looks are to everyone's taste simply because her look is very unique. I am disappointed she is out of commission due to pregnancy but happy for her. I think her Swan Lake is absolutely fabulous. She is a very evil Odile and a very gentle Odette. If Cristian is reading, Tereshkina does a standing balanced cambre on pointe (maybe there is a more technical term for this) during the coda although not the backward hopes on pointe (Cuban way).

I did not realize 5 were out due to pregnancy. Who are the five? Somova, Tereshkina, Matvienko, and who else? Just curious.

Share this post


Link to post

Tereshkina is very strong -- the only one strong enough [management told me, during the intermission at Zellerbach] that Tereshkina is the only ballerina who can do the petite batterie in Odile's variation -- the double frappe into fondu after the pirouette in attitfude, before the big devellope in ecarte. None of the ballerinas did it here [though I'd bet Kondaurova could do it]. I asked point blank why they did not do it, and the answer was "because they can not do it."

Share this post


Link to post

Tereshkina is indeed my favorite among the "new breed".

I asked point blank why they did not do it, and the answer was "because they can not do it."

Loved that. Enough of that "artistic choice" placebo...

Share this post


Link to post

I'm having a little bit of trouble picturing the exact motion Paul is describing. But I agree, Tereshkina is amazing. She makes it look so easy, no matter what it is she's doing.

Share this post


Link to post

It's right at the beginning of the variation. Lopatkina does it at 8:05. Attitude turn into allonge, pas de bouree en tournant into fondu (I guess where Tereshkina does the beats?), serre, developee.

I love this video of Tereshkina rehearsing the end of the variation. Renverses to die for!

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks you Cinnamonswirl for posting that. [NB Even Lopatkina only does the "beat-beat-down" move ONCE-- the other developpes happen without their grace-note.]

This little ornament is, I'd argue, MUSICALLY very important -- it is like the grace note before a long-held note in music. Think of the mordant before the first note of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in d minor; it's KEY to the power and beauty of the big gesture, that it started with such a brilliant attack. The lustre of the long-held pose looks dull without the jewel-encrusted edge it should have begun with.

If we're talking canonical moves, I'd say this is more important than the fouettes, since Petipa DID choreograph it [which he did not do with the fouettes -- other brilliant moves for 32 counts will do to that music, as Plisetskaya proved with her pique turns].

Share this post


Link to post

When Paul posted that yesterday I did a bit of looking on youtube and almost no ballerinas perform that step; it's not limited to the Mariinsky. Aside from Lopatkina doing it only the two times, Letestu does it in the POB DVD (she also adds double ronde de jambe en l'air before the developpe) and Nunez does it in the RB DVD.

Even Tereshkina has omitted it recently, and I couldn't find another video of her doing the variation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J_iy060j6Y

I think it's must be a coaching preference, because, from my own experience, it's not the most difficult step, especially when you are considering the steps necessary to perform the ballet as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post

Here it is immaculately done by Marianela Nunez -- with truly astounding pirouettes in attitude as well......

Share this post


Link to post

I believe Ksk04 is correct that Mariinsky ballerinas choose not to do the step but I think it is false that they cannot do it. Maybe Paul was given given false information? Every Vaganova graduate can do that step, so every Mariinsky 1st soloist or principal can do it easily, since it is an easy step.

I have seen Tereshkina dance Odile often in the past 4 years and she never does it, so I think maybe management deceived Paul? Paul is used to seeing Royal Ballet and Paris Opera ballerinas do that step, but Mariinsky ballerinas do not do it. Mezentseva, Tereshkina, Kunakova and Asylmuratova did not do it. Only Lopatkina seems to do steps that other Mariinsky ballerinas do not use. She has done that step and she enters as Odette with a glissade, but every other Mariinsky ballerina does not enter with glissade and it is not because every other Mariinsky ballerina cannot do a glisaade. It is because they choose not to do it, just like they choose not to do that petit battement step.

Share this post


Link to post

TIara, if I was given false information by the director of the company, what would THAT mean?

And I would say, from my own experience as a dancer, that develope in ecarte with a releve is not a difficult step, BUT that the releve with double frappe pique into a releve with a developpe in ecarte IS a difficult step -- the small work requires a very strong standing leg, the beat must be brilliant, and the co-ordination is tricky to link all the moves into one phrase

Share this post


Link to post

Watch the following video of this 8 year old girl who seems to do the steps in question although she only does a single instead of a double! If Fateyev really means what he says, that he thinks the Mariinsky dancers can not do this step, they better hurry up and sign this 8 year old up to be Principal of the Mariinsky!!!! Maybe she will be Prima Ballerina Assoluta over Lopatkina, Tereshkina, Kondaurova, Vishneva, etc.!!!!! flowers.gif

Share this post


Link to post

I meant to give the timing. The 8 year old does the steps around the 6:00minutes and 6:11minutes mark in the video above. I am dumbfounded that an 8 year old can do things the Mariinsky principals can't! How is this possible?

Share this post


Link to post

I believe Ksk04 is correct that Mariinsky ballerinas choose not to do the step but I think it is false that they cannot do it. Maybe Paul was given given false information? Every Vaganova graduate can do that step, so every Mariinsky 1st soloist or principal can do it easily, since it is an easy step.

I have seen Tereshkina dance Odile often in the past 4 years and she never does it, so I think maybe management deceived Paul? Paul is used to seeing Royal Ballet and Paris Opera ballerinas do that step, but Mariinsky ballerinas do not do it. Mezentseva, Tereshkina, Kunakova and Asylmuratova did not do it. Only Lopatkina seems to do steps that other Mariinsky ballerinas do not use. She has done that step and she enters as Odette with a glissade, but every other Mariinsky ballerina does not enter with glissade and it is not because every other Mariinsky ballerina cannot do a glisaade. It is because they choose not to do it, just like they choose not to do that petit battement step.

I just checked and Gillian Murphy doesn't do it in the ABT video either. I really never thought about this step so much and can't remember whether this is the norm or not at ABT but I would assume so. Whatever you think of her as a dancer, her technical proficiency is never at issue. She certainly *could* do the step.

Share this post


Link to post

Watch the following video of this 8 year old girl ...

Wow...her fouetees are better than Somova's...(at least those I've seen on video..)

Share this post


Link to post

If Fateyev really means what he says, that he thinks the Mariinsky dancers can not do this step, they better hurry up and sign this 8 year old up to be Principal of the Mariinsky!!!! Maybe she will be Prima Ballerina Assoluta over Lopatkina, Tereshkina, Kondaurova, Vishneva, etc.!!!!! flowers.gif

Don't give anybody ideas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! speechless-smiley-003.gif

Share this post


Link to post

The Mariinsky 'acting director' was probably just being dismissive -- and being highly protective of his own recent casting choices for Odette-Odile -- when he told someone that the curent Mariinsky ballerinas cannot perform the double-frappe/fondu 'grace note move' in the Odile variation. Such Petipa-choreographed 'grace notes' are important reminders of the elegant Imperial-Era qualities in ballet. Then again, would you expect a desire for 19th-C aesthetics from someone who has banished the Vikharev reconstructions from the stage of the Mariinsky?

Just look at the video-clip of Marienella Nunez of the RB, above, to see the overall languid grace and demeanor of a ballerina who is 'doing it right.' This Odile is relaxing and floating in her moves...she has all the time in the world...not rushing for her cellphone or trying to catch a subway. [it also helps that said RB production is notable for being staged in the mid-1980s using the N. Sergeev/'Harvard' notes. If you want to come closest to seeing what Petersburg audiences saw in 1895, see the RB's treasure of a production.]

Share this post


Link to post

TIara, if I was given false information by the director of the company, what would THAT mean?

And i would say, from my own experience as a dancer, that devellope in ecarte with a releve is not a difficult step, BUT that the releve with double frappe pique into a releve with a developpe in ecarte IS a difficult step -- the small work requires a very strong standing leg, the beat must be brilliant, and the co-ordination is tricky to link all the moves into one phrase

It would mean exactly what you would think: you were misinformed by management. Yuri Fateyev wanted you to think other ballerinas in the company were not capable of performing this step, a slur upon them them that is not correct. What his reasons for doing this were, only he knows.

Share this post


Link to post

The Mariinsky 'acting director' was probably just being dismissive -- and being highly protective of his own recent casting choices for Odette-Odile -- when he told someone that the curent Mariinsky ballerinas cannot perform the double-frappe/fondu 'grace note move' in the Odile variation. Such Petipa-choreographed 'grace notes' are important reminders of the elegant Imperial-Era qualities in ballet. Then again, would you expect a desire for 19th-C aesthetics from someone who has banished the Vikharev reconstructions from the stage of the Mariinsky?

Just look at the video-clip of Marienella Nunez of the RB, above, to see the overall languid grace and demeanor of a ballerina who is 'doing it right.' This Odile is relaxing and floating in her moves...she has all the time in the world...not rushing for her cellphone or trying to catch a subway. [it also helps that said RB production is notable for being staged in the mid-1980s using the N. Sergeev/'Harvard' notes. If you want to come closest to seeing what Petersburg audiences saw in 1895, see the RB's treasure of a production.]

That element is not from the Sergeev notes, or Petipa-choreographed, although it may perhaps be arguably closer to the original choreography than the other version typically done today.

The petipa version seems to be a ronde-de-jambe a la second.

You can see this in the wonderful PNB After Petipa demonstration at the Guggenheim available in full on youtube.

This variation is at around the 50 minute mark

Share this post


Link to post

What's interesting is that the host talks before the variation and his theory for the reason female variations did not vary as much as male ones over time was b/c people may have thought a ballerina could not do it, if she didn't do it as always done. This may very well be true, since that issue has come up here. The Mariinsky dancers don't seem to do it, so now they are being accused of being unable to do it.

It is amazing that Fateyev slandered his own dancers. Very strange.

Share this post


Link to post