Jump to content


Works & Process: Doug Fullington's "After Petipa"


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#16 Amy Reusch

Amy Reusch

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,761 posts

Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:42 AM

Thank you so much for persevering!! I love seeing the counterpoint between danseur and ballerina in the original...

If the danseur variation was typically petit allegro instead of grand allegro, where did Petipa use grand allegro? I'm so used to seeing it in the danseur variation I can hardly imagine it elsewhere... or was it saved for the coda?

#17 innopac

innopac

    Gold Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 783 posts

Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:42 AM

Thank you so much for posting the youtube. What a privilege to be able to watch a lecture like this. Posted Image

#18 innopac

innopac

    Gold Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 783 posts

Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:53 AM

One question. Perhaps I misunderstood but I thought that later choreographers used less mime and tried to incorporate characterization into the choreography. I would like to understand better why characters were often more fully developed with the earlier works. Would this be because of the loss of mime?

From the pointe article mentioned above: http://www.pointemag...volution-ballet

How are the notations different from the Swan Lake and Sleeping Beauty that audiences are used to seeing today?
The choreography is often simpler (though not in the case of petit allegro variations for men!), the mime more prominent, the characters often more fully developed and the plots more involved.



#19 cubanmiamiboy

cubanmiamiboy

    Diamonds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,239 posts

Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:14 PM

Wow, wow, wow...what a wonderful conference..! (Is there a part-part-part-time job for a nurse who's hopelessly enchanted by all this world of ballet investigation..? Just kidding...I certainly WISH I could be part of such elite of connoisseurs and researchers. My COMPLETE admiration, Mr. Fullington! ..Posted Image Posted Image )

About the male variation in the "Black Swan PDD"...I need to go back over Doug's dates, but I always thought that because there had been no grand PDD for the ballroom act-(but instead the Pas de Six involving the fiancees)-until Petipa's 1895 reworking of the ballet, the trumpet Act I Merry Maker "Tempo di Valse" piece-(which I assumed was being danced pre-1895 by the female "Merry Maker", as it was placed second following the violin one that now serves as Siegfrieds's and which I thought was danced by the male "Merry Maker")-had never been used by anybody, male or female as part of the new structure. In other words, I thought that the dancing design was was as follow:

1877 all the way 'till 1895. Act I. Pas de deux for two Merry Makers.

Entree-(our current BS Entree)
Adagio-(our current BS Adagio)
Male variation-(the "violin variation", our current Siegfried's variation, MUSICALLY speaking, not choreographically)
Female variation-(Tempo di Valse..what I now know was at one point used and choreographed by Gorsky for Siegfried's solo.Pre-1895/Petipa..?...that would be my big question)
Coda-(our current BS coda)

1895-Act III. Odile/Siegfried/Rothbart Pas

Adagio-(the ex Merry Makers Adagio)
Siegfried's variation-(the ex male Merry maker "violin variation", with the violin segment now heavily orchestrated)
Odile's variation-("L'espiegle")
Coda-(the ex Merry Maker PDD coda)

What am I missing here...? Posted Image

#20 cubanmiamiboy

cubanmiamiboy

    Diamonds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,239 posts

Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:51 PM

Wow, wow, wow...what a wonderful conference..! (Is there a part-part-part-time job for a nurse who's hopelessly enchanted by all this world of ballet investigation..? Just kidding...I certainly WISH I could be part of such elite of connoisseurs and researchers. My COMPLETE admiration, Mr. Fullington! ..Posted Image Posted Image )

About the male variation in the "Black Swan PDD"...I need to go back over Doug's dates, but I always thought that because there had been no grand PDD for the ballroom act-(but instead the Pas de Six involving the fiancees)-until Petipa's 1895 reworking of the ballet, the trumpet Act I Merry Maker "Tempo di Valse" piece-(which I assumed was being danced pre-1895 by the female "Merry Maker", as it was placed second following the violin one that now serves as Siegfrieds's and which I thought was danced by the male "Merry Maker")-had never been used by anybody, male or female as part of the new structure. In other words, I thought that the dancing design was was as follow:

1877 all the way 'till 1895. Act I. Pas de deux for two Merry Makers.

Entree-(our current BS Entree)
Adagio-(our current BS Adagio)
Male variation-(the "violin variation", our current Siegfried's variation, MUSICALLY speaking, not choreographically)
Female variation-(Tempo di Valse..what I now know was at one point used and choreographed by Gorsky for Siegfried's solo.Pre-1895/Petipa..?...that would be my big question)
Coda-(our current BS coda)

1895-Act III. Odile/Siegfried/Rothbart Pas

Adagio-(the ex Merry Makers Adagio)
Siegfried's variation-(the ex male Merry maker "violin variation", with the violin segment now heavily orchestrated)
Odile's variation-("L'espiegle")
Coda-(the ex Merry Maker PDD coda)

What am I missing here...? Posted Image


Never mind me...I went back to doug's narration and saw that the "Tempo di Valse" trumpet piece was danced in 1895 by Gorsky as a fourth nameless cavalier-(and probably choreographed by him as well). So it looks as if that piece of music was not cut off for the 1895 reworking, but was somehow erased-(along with the character)-later on. Then the WHOLE music of the Merry Makers PDD made it to Petipa's new staging, so the big changes were that Gorsky used that music as his variation-(whereas I assume it was given to the Merry Maker female dancer in 1877)-plus the brand new "L'espiegle" for Odile. I also find interesting that doug mentions that Odile DID dance a part in the 1877 Pas de Six-(was Odile's participation danced to the Russian Dance, which is attributed to Pelageya Karpakova?) What I've read is that this dance was added at one point after the premiere, but I'm not sure if Karpova was dancing Odile's part, or if she was just another national divertissement dancer. And if she was not Odile, and the Russian Dance was just a simple character piece, then what was Odile's part/music in the ballroom act from 1877 to 1895...? Posted Image

#21 Amy Reusch

Amy Reusch

    Platinum Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,761 posts

Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:03 PM

I know... now we need a transcript! (if one ever exists, I hope a link goes up here)

#22 cubanmiamiboy

cubanmiamiboy

    Diamonds Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,239 posts

Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:36 AM


Wow, wow, wow...what a wonderful conference..! (Is there a part-part-part-time job for a nurse who's hopelessly enchanted by all this world of ballet investigation..? Just kidding...I certainly WISH I could be part of such elite of connoisseurs and researchers. My COMPLETE admiration, Mr. Fullington! ..Posted Image Posted Image )

About the male variation in the "Black Swan PDD"...I need to go back over Doug's dates, but I always thought that because there had been no grand PDD for the ballroom act-(but instead the Pas de Six involving the fiancees)-until Petipa's 1895 reworking of the ballet, the trumpet Act I Merry Maker "Tempo di Valse" piece-(which I assumed was being danced pre-1895 by the female "Merry Maker", as it was placed second following the violin one that now serves as Siegfrieds's and which I thought was danced by the male "Merry Maker")-had never been used by anybody, male or female as part of the new structure. In other words, I thought that the dancing design was was as follow:

1877 all the way 'till 1895. Act I. Pas de deux for two Merry Makers.

Entree-(our current BS Entree)
Adagio-(our current BS Adagio)
Male variation-(the "violin variation", our current Siegfried's variation, MUSICALLY speaking, not choreographically)
Female variation-(Tempo di Valse..what I now know was at one point used and choreographed by Gorsky for Siegfried's solo.Pre-1895/Petipa..?...that would be my big question)
Coda-(our current BS coda)

1895-Act III. Odile/Siegfried/Rothbart Pas

Adagio-(the ex Merry Makers Adagio)
Siegfried's variation-(the ex male Merry maker "violin variation", with the violin segment now heavily orchestrated)
Odile's variation-("L'espiegle")
Coda-(the ex Merry Maker PDD coda)

What am I missing here...? Posted Image


Never mind me...I went back to doug's narration and saw that the "Tempo di Valse" trumpet piece was danced in 1895 by Gorsky as a fourth nameless cavalier-(and probably choreographed by him as well). So it looks as if that piece of music was not cut off for the 1895 reworking, but was somehow erased-(along with the character)-later on. Then the WHOLE music of the Merry Makers PDD made it to Petipa's new staging, so the big changes were that Gorsky used that music as his variation-(whereas I assume it was given to the Merry Maker female dancer in 1877)-plus the brand new "L'espiegle" for Odile. I also find interesting that doug mentions that Odile DID dance a part in the 1877 Pas de Six-(was Odile's participation danced to the Russian Dance, which is attributed to Pelageya Karpakova?) What I've read is that this dance was added at one point after the premiere, but I'm not sure if Karpova was dancing Odile's part, or if she was just another national divertissement dancer. And if she was not Odile, and the Russian Dance was just a simple character piece, then what was Odile's part/music in the ballroom act from 1877 to 1895...? Posted Image


The 1877 trumpet "Tempo di Valse" piece has always been an enigma to me, since I thought it had never been used post Reisinger. Thanks to Doug's master presentation, I know now that it was used by Gorsky for the "nameless fourth cavalier" in the ballroom Pas de Quatre. Interesting to me, the Skeaping staging that is used in Cuba since 1954 uses it as a variation for Siegfried IN THE WHITE ACT-(in a sort of truncated way, musically wise)-, right after the White Swan Adagio/Love duet, and before Odette's variation-(the one with the a la seconde poses)-, which makes it for a complete Adagio/2 variations/Coda formal PDD. Other than that, I've never seen this piece of music used in any modern staging of SL. I'm curious to know if there's any history about this, or when did the "nameless cavalier" variation dissapear. Could it had happened at the turn of the century, or even later on..? Could Skeaping had any sort of reference to this by the time she staged the Cuban SL...?

Here's a clip of it. Anette Delgado as Odette, Osiel Gounod as Siegfried.

Love Duet starting at 04:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMHDFb8Yvw0

Siegfried's variation to "Tempo di Valse", Odette's variation and Coda.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GYdHZRBGXA

#23 puppytreats

puppytreats

    Gold Circle

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 751 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:42 AM

I watched this on Monday before the power went out at home due to the hurricane (it is still out, but I am elsewhere), and Jerome Tisserand's performance merits special praise. His dancing was beautiful. I am curious as to how he is received by audiences at home.

#24 sandik

sandik

    Rubies Circle

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,464 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:36 AM

He has been dancing really well, and has filled in for some injured people recently, which has given him even more exposure.

#25 Helene

Helene

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,150 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:40 AM

He's been cast prominently, too, and I think he is a Soloist in name only.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Help support Ballet Alert! and Ballet Talk for Dancers year round by using this search box for your amazon.com purchases (adblockers may block display):