61 replies to this topic

[cubanmiamiboy]

Bart Birdsall, on 06 May 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

California, on 05 May 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

nysusan, on 15 April 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Bart Birdsall, on 15 April 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

I love the coda of the engagement when Gamzatti turns on one leg flinging the other leg in the air and never setting that leg down. Don't know what that is called but love it. She turns 5-6 times as a waltz plays. So amazing to watch a ballerina do that!

Those are the Italian fouettees

If you search "Italian fouettes" on YouTube, several examples come up. But here's another puzzle:  "regular" fouettes were first done by an Italian dancer, Pierina Legnani, although she apparently first performed them in St. Petersburg. So where did the name "Italian fouettes" come from?

I am assuming the Italian school (Cecchetti school) started using Italian fouettes as regular fouettes, so then the other countries started labeling them Italian fouettes. Or does someone have another theory or know the answer to California's question?

I assume it was probably where the step was first developed.  Fact is,the two steps differ from each other in both design and pace, starting with their different time signatures-(regular fouettes in 4/4 vs. Italian fouettes in 3/4)

[cinnamonswirl]

I'm pretty sure fouettés existed before Legani. She was the first to starting doing 32 consecutively as a party trick (as it were), but I don't think she invented the step.

Also, while I wasn't Cecchetti trained, I think that in Cecchetti, a fouetté (when referring to a turn) normally refers to a fouetté rond de jambe en tournant (usually en dehors) -- what we usually see in Swan Lake. Certainly in common ballet parlance Cecchetti fouettés and Italian fouettés are not the same. In terms of "Swan Lake fouettés," Cechetti fouettés (dancer opens to croisé devant) are distinct from Russian style fouettés, which open straight à la seconde. The "correct" term for an Italian fouetté is grand fouetté en tournant. They are definitely very different steps and are usually taught at quite different points in the curriculum. They are both fouettés in that in both cases the leg is whipping/fouetté-ing, but a fouetté can also be a jump.

I have noticed an increasing tendency among pros to replace Italian fouettés in variations (Le Corsaire, the fairies' code in Beauty) with Cecchetti fouéttes en dedans (as opposed to the more usual en dehors). Similarly, in the Makarova Gamzatti variation, Gamzatti does Italian fouettés en dedans and then Cechetti fouettés en dehors -- but Nuryev has her do Cechetti fouettés de dedans, and then Cechetti fouettés en dehors.  

(Sorry for hijacking the thread.)

[4mrdncr]

Many thanks cinnamonswirl for the detail and definitions, I wondered too whether the "Italian" derivation was because of a distinct school or interpretator, and because, I don't think in my training anyone ever defined or called them anything other than fouette turns (with the distinctly different starting positions you noted above).  Nevertheless, I do remember practicing them, and practicing both en dehors and en dedans versions too.

[Nanarina]

I am looking forward to hearing about your meeting, so please do post some details for those of us who cannot make it to the  USA.
I love La Bayadere as well, both the Gamzatti and Nikiya  roles.

[nysusan]

Helene, on 13 April 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

I don't know whether there's a common place, but when I've been in town for the last couple of summers, I've met my friends by the center costume case at the top of the entry stairs.

Are we all meeting at the very top of the stairs at the Grand Tier level or on the Parterre level? I think their are costume cases on both...

[MakarovaFan]

nysusan, on 21 May 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Helene, on 13 April 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

I don't know whether there's a common place, but when I've been in town for the last couple of summers, I've met my friends by the center costume case at the top of the entry stairs.

Are we all meeting at the very top of the stairs at the Grand Tier level or on the Parterre level? I think their are costume cases on both...

Hi nysusan, I was going to post today to confirm that there is a BalletAlerters meet-up this Friday night (Vishneva-Osipova Bayadere) during first intermission.  Earlier in this thread, the headcount was you, me, Helene, Bart Birdsall and cubanmiamiboy (aka Cristian).  I'll definitely be there, but we need to clarify which level we're meeting at.  Helene, Bart, Cristian, please help.  Thanks!

[Birdsall]

I thought top of the main stairs.....is that Grand Tier or Parterre? I can't remember.....

[MakarovaFan]

Bart Birdsall, on 21 May 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

I thought top of the main stairs.....is that Grand Tier or Parterre? I can't remember.....

Bart, The top of the main stairs is the Parterre Level.

[Birdsall]

MakarovaFan, on 21 May 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Bart Birdsall, on 21 May 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

I thought top of the main stairs.....is that Grand Tier or Parterre? I can't remember.....

Bart, The top of the main stairs is the Parterre Level.

Okay, let's plan on that during first intermission. Let's hope others are reading!

[nysusan]

Bart Birdsall, on 21 May 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

MakarovaFan, on 21 May 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Bart Birdsall, on 21 May 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

I thought top of the main stairs.....is that Grand Tier or Parterre? I can't remember.....

Bart, The top of the main stairs is the Parterre Level.

Okay, let's plan on that during first intermission. Let's hope others are reading!

Actually, the top of the middle (what I consider to be the main) staircase is the Grand Tier Level. There are also 2 side staircases that veer off and lead to the Parterre level, which is why I hope Helene will see this and clarify which one she was referring to. Otherwise we can just pick one. I would vote for the Parterre level cause the Grand Tier tends to get crowded with people heading to the bar and to the terrace.

[cubanmiamiboy]

So where will it be finally...?

[Helene]

I apologize -- I was giving a suggestion, but I didn't mean to imply that I could be there.  (I really wish I could, but it's not possible, and I just have to read everyone's impressions.)

Honestly, now I've confused myself. I was sure it was by the costume cases on the first level, i.e., where after you walk in, you don't go directly ahead down a staircase, but, instead up the stairs which circle to the right or left.  At the top of those stairs are costume cases, and I thought that's where we met.  Now I'm wondering if we were one level up, which would be Grand Tier.

[carbro]

The TOP of the stairs, where the arc is uninterrupted, is the Grand Tier, which tends to be very busy.  The level directly above the orchestra is the Parterre, with less traffic and noise and probably more congenial.  If it turns out to be a large gathering, there will be less of a problem of everyone being able to hear everyone.

In this photo, you can see some men descending toward the Orchestra.  Above them is the railing of the Parterre Level (with illuminated costume displays), and above that, you can see the base of a sculpture of a kneeling nude.  The central stairway, which ends in a curl around the columns unseen in this photo leads to the Grand Tier.

[Birdsall]

I tend to think the uninterrupted top of the staircase is the easiest near the nude. But maybe we could all meet over to the side so we don't block the stairs. If I remember correctly, the the right of the top of the stairs in this pic is the direction you go for the restaurant. To the left is a bar. I found in the past the restaurant side has space to hang out. The bar side gets jam packed.

So my vote is for the top of the stairs like Helene suggests at Grand Tier (level with kneeling nude) over to the right side (right side of the pic Carbro posted if you are looking straight at the pic) so we don't block the stairs.

[MakarovaFan]

Thanks, Bart.  The Grand Tier (level with the reclining nude) over to the right side in Cabro's pic sounds great.

I and my husband Ken will be there at first intermission.  I'm blonde and will be in a pink and beige dress.

Helene, so sorry you won't be there. We'll be thinking of you.