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Dancers Who SmokeWhy do they put their life at RISK?


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#46 Nanarina

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:44 PM

I also smoked for a few years in my youth - due partly to leaving home quite young and being very immature and impressionable, stress, weight-control issues - and in fact I got much better control of my weight after stopping smoking.

Back in those days more than 50% of the dancers I knew smoked - I am in Europe.
Now it is quite different from company to company, I have seen.
It also seems to depend on where the dancers come from.

I have one DD who has asthma and she has serious trouble when confronted with cigarette smoke.

Sometimes I compare smoking around others to blaring very loud music out of a ghetto-blaster: the person playing the music does not mind it, and some of the passersby may also like it or be indifferent, but there are probably going to be some people who are really, really bothered and will feel very uncomfortable and cannot get away.

I tend towards a mantra of "my freedom stops where yours begins". :)
Probably one has to sort of agree on how important it really is to have fairly clear air to breathe while out walking or waiting for a bus, and all of that.
-d-



#47 papeetepatrick

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:39 PM

It's really no longer glamorous to smoke in the way it used to be and most European countries have smoking bans – Germany appears to be the exception. I believe that part of the impetus for the bans had to do with the costs to national health systems.


"J'adore fumer", said DeNeuve in 'Pola X', and she's talked about cutting down to two a day after dinner, and probably does that or did for a time. She's said "I used to smoke a lot, but these two are delicious". I think so too. In the case of the smoker, it's usually that it's a very small minority that can smoke as a kind of 'dessert' thing like that. I smoke about a pack every 3 or 4 weeks, and don't intend to stop if I can continue it like that. I do it after a meal too, and yet it is not because DeNeuve is my role model in all ways. However, if you can do it like that, it's not even a 'filthy habit', as almost everybody seems to feel self-righteous enough to call it. I know someone at the moment who feels exactly this way about alcohol, and was never an alcoholic, but just cites statistics, so that at the age of 20 she never had a drink, and is now at the age of 35 much like a much older person.

Contrary to what some commenters have said, smoking is still very sexy and glamorous, and I'll get around to reading the wiki specificities later. A Swiss French friend who also smokes lightly says that smoking is allowed in outdoor areas of restaurants in Switzerland and in France. I am fine with bans in restaurants indoors, although personally, I like a good Italian or Spanish restaurants flavours and aromas mixed with cigarette and cigar smoke (this is different from one poster's discussion of the 'loss of scent' when you smoke: It's according to which kind. In a pristine outdoor environment, I'd never think of smoking, but again, I know I'm in the minority about not having the same kind of addiction--and it's not to make me 'special', it's that I get a headache and a sense of depression if I smoke except when partying with other people. I always thought the worst offense vis-a-vis smoking was allowing it in public workplaces, where it was simply nauseating, even if you smoked some yourself, but that's just acc. to the person.)

I like the thread though, as it has caught me up on attitudes about the outdoor anti-smoking campaign in a way I would usually associate with the New York Times. I see it is a kind of war, insofar as the extreme cases of 'right to not smoke' are being invoked as well as 'unhappinesses' of various kinds, and desires for the 'most stringent' forbiddings. I have no sympathy with this, because everything Simon has said is true except for knowing anything about Marlboro Country, he's too young to have known what being a Marlboro Man is like. But even objectively I don't have any sympathy with it, because it really is like liquor prohibition, but just different in kind: A drunk is very glad to impinge on your desire not to be a drunk or around drunks, and for this reason, we may not reinstate Prohibition.

I see nothing whatever in the thesis of 'role model' for young dancers for Aurelie and Marie-Agnes. Obama has a fag or two, as is well-known, and that's the U.S. president. Nor do I think that dancers and others who use their physical powers ought to 'know better', because they do. They don't need anything explained to them. They want to smoke, and one can simply try to force them not to. But I doubt they care about lip service on this matter, they want to see tanks if they're going to pay attention.

BUT...the fact is that the thread has proved that there is just battling it out. There are those who don't think smokers have any rights at all, and those who think they should be veritably policed. So they'll just have to see if they can get it done. Nothing really to discuss unless one has the power and energy to call up and join organizations, etc. People in the U.S. have long been smoking much less (last 20 years, I guess), and those who do smoke will continue to until the new crackdowns occur. And of these impending crackdowns I have no doubt. This is an increasingly sterilized country in a number of ways. And while even in France, DeNeuve can't smoke at the Tour d'Argent, she can at the Cafe des Deux Magots, if she ever goes there.

It seems to have an element of melancholy and solitude to it now. The compulsion to text has taken its place, a small decafinated pleasure that seems to dull rather than sharpen the mind.


Not necessarily. I rarely have even a single cigarette when I'm alone, it's for being sociable, even if the other person doesn't smoke (unless s/he minds the smoke, in which case I don't.) I like your comparison of texting, though, which has recently been written up in NYTimes as having ascended to heights of such extreme rudeness that the bimboes who must remain glued to their cellphones don't even mention mid-conversation that they must tend to this; they just do it, and start talking, with the flesh-conversation person left either to decide this is normal or abnormal and maybe just walk away quite as naturally as the texter thought it was to text. But I've seen no attempts to take LEGAL ACTION on all sorts of addictions to technology, because it's not been around long enough to show just how HARMFUL it is to the OTHER person. It boils down to whether you want to be strict and virtually totalitarian or accept some of the imperfections of democracy which are bound to accompany some of the freedoms it gives, as dirac pointed out about halfway through.

#48 Drew

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:10 PM

But I've seen no attempts to take LEGAL ACTION on all sorts of addictions to technology, because it's not been around long enough to show just how HARMFUL it is to the OTHER person.


Texting while driving (as with cell phone use) might become, or perhaps already is, an exception to this. I have certainly seen public service announcements on the topic.

#49 Nanarina

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:00 AM

In my observations at social events for the arts; musicians, dancers, even singers in general have a higher rates of smoking than the general population. Dancers in particular smoke to stave off hunger pains and deal with stress. The pressures to remain ridiculously thin are not to be underestimated. The social barriers to smoking in Europe are very low grade in comparison to the US. While it is banned in many restaurants in Europe, most people flaunt these rules as a form or rebellion. In comparison in Seattle, the pressure *not* to smoke is tremendous, and social mores make smokers feel deeply uncomfortable.

I abhore smoking, and my father also died of lung cancer in his early 60's. He was diagnosed the Friday before Mother's Day weekend, and died the week before Father's day. Those 4 weeks were the worst of his life, and the worst of ours, watching him suffer.

There are significant smoking cecession options available now, including Chantix, which I understand is very effective. I hope Ms. DuPont is able to quit for the sake of her own long term health.



#50 Nanarina

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:17 AM

: I am so sorry that you too had the same experience as me, it is something despite trying, I personally can never seem to forget. My feelings are not only criticism but concern for others. Like you I abhore smoking for what it does to me if I am forced to be in a stagnant environment. I was so pleased when it was banned in public places indoors here in the UK. However, people can light up and puff all over you outside.
I had an experience last year when I was unable to walk due to an injury. My Son in law left me sitting in a precinct with a group of 12 young Mums, there were four tables, each of them had a child or two, and sat there smoking heavily.
They were friendly and just doing their own thing, I spoke to them for a while, and in the end had to apologise for moving away, which I did to well out of their field. So in fact smoking can be just as offensive outdoors as in.

#51 Nanarina

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:36 AM


:wallbash: I was recently very disapointed to see in the documentary "In the space of a moment" Aurelie Dupont blatently take a cigerette of Marie Agnes G. and smoke it as if to say "so what I SMOKE" Having watch my own father die a horrific death with klung cancer, in his early fifties, and me being just over 20 years, it had a profound effect on me. He was a very talented musician, and it was such a waste of
life.


I honestly feel that someone like Aurelie who has many yound woman supporters who look up to her, it is very irresponsible. Maybe it is okay for her to smoke in private, but what about her young children, or anyone else who put their family at risk by passive smoking.



Why do Dancers and others do it? is it to inhibit their appetite or to rebel against the disipline of their career?


Despite all the warnings and risks do they all just think "It wont happen tome".



Surely if Aurelie Dupont, Marie Agnes Gillot or any other dancer or indeed person wishes to smoke it's their business and theirs alone. But if you truly feel so strongly about it why not write to the POB and take it up with Dupont? I'm sure she'd be delighted.

www.operadeparis.fr



#52 Nanarina

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:38 AM



:wallbash: I was recently very disapointed to see in the documentary "In the space of a moment" Aurelie Dupont blatently take a cigerette of Marie Agnes G. and smoke it as if to say "so what I SMOKE" Having watch my own father die a horrific death with klung cancer, in his early fifties, and me being just over 20 years, it had a profound effect on me. He was a very talented musician, and it was such a waste of
life.


I honestly feel that someone like Aurelie who has many yound woman supporters who look up to her, it is very irresponsible. Maybe it is okay for her to smoke in private, but what about her young children, or anyone else who put their family at risk by passive smoking.



Why do Dancers and others do it? is it to inhibit their appetite or to rebel against the disipline of their career?


Despite all the warnings and risks do they all just think "It wont happen tome".



Surely if Aurelie Dupont, Marie Agnes Gillot or any other dancer or indeed person wishes to smoke it's their business and theirs alone. But if you truly feel so strongly about it why not write to the POB and take it up with Dupont? I'm sure she'd be delighted.

www.operadeparis.fr



#53 Nanarina

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:57 AM




:wallbash: I was recently very disapointed to see in the documentary "In the space of a moment" Aurelie Dupont blatently take a cigerette of Marie Agnes G. and smoke it as if to say "so what I SMOKE" Having watch my own father die a horrific death with klung cancer, in his early fifties, and me being just over 20 years, it had a profound effect on me. He was a very talented musician, and it was such a waste of
life.


I honestly feel that someone like Aurelie who has many yound woman supporters who look up to her, it is very irresponsible. Maybe it is okay for her to smoke in private, but what about her young children, or anyone else who put their family at risk by passive smoking.



Why do Dancers and others do it? is it to inhibit their appetite or to rebel against the disipline of their career?


Despite all the warnings and risks do they all just think "It wont happen tome".



Surely if Aurelie Dupont, Marie Agnes Gillot or any other dancer or indeed person wishes to smoke it's their business and theirs alone. But if you truly feel so strongly about it why not write to the POB and take it up with Dupont? I'm sure she'd be delighted.

www.operadeparis.fr



I feel strongly it is the business of other people when and wehere smokers light up. Non Smokers have the right to protect themselves from the fumes others create. I do not condem smokers if they choose to smoke, my response is both critism of the act of smoking and concern for the welfare of all.
As for Aurelie Dupont being delighted if I wrote to her about the subject I do not think so. she would not appreciate being criticised. But if I ever got the chance to speak to her on the subject if it was appropriate I would do so.

#54 Simon G

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 09:25 AM

I feel strongly it is the business of other people when and wehere smokers light up. Non Smokers have the right to protect themselves from the fumes others create. I do not condem smokers if they choose to smoke, my response is both critism of the act of smoking and concern for the welfare of all.
As for Aurelie Dupont being delighted if I wrote to her about the subject I do not think so. she would not appreciate being criticised. But if I ever got the chance to speak to her on the subject if it was appropriate I would do so.



Perhaps I was being a tad facetious regarding writing to Dupont? Actually, as long as a smoker does not light up in your house, or in an enclosed space where you are it's none of your business where or when a smoker lights up, nor is it mine or anyone else's. Yes, a non smoker has the right to protect themself so they can either move, request the smoker leave their house (though most will indeed ask or not light up in someone's house at all.)

It would never be appropriate to speak to Dupont on the subject as it isn't your business, again Dupont is NOT a role model to anyone. Indeed I find people who designate themselves to be role models more overbearing and unbearable than the air in a smokers' room. If Dupont wanted to hold a smokers party for smoking members of the Paris Opera Ballet, film it and release it on DVD, that would be her choice; and a very niche product.

I sympathise absolutely with the pain of losing a loved one, but if someone smokes it's not wholly cigarettes' fault, it is their choice to have continued, their responsibility and every smoker must at the very least acknowledge that free will is a very real issue and their death is their own. I'm not being cruel, it's hard to quit, boy do I know it, I will always always be a smoker even though I no longer smoke and I will always crave a cigarette at my key times. I know certain people are able to smoke two or so at those trigger times during the day and no more, I couldn't do it. And the reason why I quit was health related and I do sympathise with the health issue, actually more than symapthise I stopped because of it. However, even when I did smoke I made sure not to inflict my smoke on others and certainly never around kids.

I don't know what more there is to say about this, it's kind of come full circle some time ago.

#55 volcanohunter

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 11:23 AM

:wallbash: I was recently very disapointed to see in the documentary "In the space of a moment" Aurelie Dupont blatently take a cigerette of Marie Agnes G. and smoke it as if to say "so what I SMOKE"

I have to admit I wasn't in the least surprised by this moment, though I probably did mutter something to the effect of "stupid women." But later on in the film, when you see Dupont heavily pregnant, I did think to myself, "I sure hope she quit while she was expecting."

#56 papeetepatrick

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 11:36 AM

I have to admit I wasn't in the least surprised by this moment, though I probably did mutter something to the effect of "stupid women."


You probably did. Two of the greatest ballet artists in the world, who have offered 99.9999% more than most to the world, and yet they do something you don't like. Therefore they're 'stupid women'. And I'm a 'stupid man', with a new book cover with me smoking a cigarette in my own kitchen, eh? Say it ain't so. I definitely feel bad about this, because I'm, of course, a great role model for many perverts, and I shouldn't be seen by them smoking.

#57 Simon G

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 11:41 AM


I have to admit I wasn't in the least surprised by this moment, though I probably did mutter something to the effect of "stupid women."


You probably did. Two of the greatest ballet artists in the world, who have offered 99.9999% more than most to the world, and yet they do something you don't like. Therefore they're 'stupid women'. And I'm a 'stupid man', with a new book cover with me smoking a cigarette in my own kitchen, eh? Say it ain't so. I definitely feel bad about this, because I'm, of course, a great role model for many perverts, and I shouldn't be seen by them smoking.



Not many, ALL, you are the original pervert and best, one by which all others will be judged and ultimately fall short.

#58 Anthony_NYC

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:03 PM

About role models: You don't choose to be one, you're chosen. When chosen, some try to live up to it, others not. This discussion reminds me how my aunt, who went to AA meetings all her adult life, thought it improper of my parents to have a cocktail in front of children, and she said it aloud (though nicely) in front of us. To this day I will decline a drink at family events. Much as I love my scotch, it's really not that hard a sacrifice. I can have a drink later, or on the sly.

A libertarian part of me agrees that our smoking bans in New York go too far. But in truth I love them! It used to be nobody could drag me into a bar, now I think it's fun to have a drink after a show. I think most smokers are unaware how repulsive their habit is to some of us. Thanks to my father, who always smoked in the car, all my life just the slightest whiff of cigarette smoke makes me feel instantly carsick. Nevertheless, if somebody walking in front of me on the street is smoking, I don't say anying or give them a dirty look. I just cross the street. I did have to ask management of my building to talk to another tenant, a retired man, about his smoking all day long right in the front doorway. Also, I've had my peace in the park spoiled way too many times to object to the smoking ban there. It's just as disruptive to my enjoyment as radio playing, and that's outlawed so why not smoking?

I feel one does have to emphasize the human cost of smoking. My father did three packs a day, and when he finally quit it was too late. With his chronic emphysema, we who loved him got to watch him for twelve years very slowly and painfully drown. Trust me, there was nothing glamorous or sophisticated about it.

Anthony

#59 dirac

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:17 PM

It's just as disruptive to my enjoyment as radio playing, and that's outlawed so why not smoking?


If I remember correctly the ban was pushed as a health measure. I would suggest respectfully that there's a fairly substantial difference between radio playing in an open space, which unquestionably affects everyone within earshot, and an individual smoking a cigarette and otherwise minding his own business. And simply because we ban X doesn't mean that we have to ban Y and Z also.

My grandparents used to enjoy old fashioneds on the porch at the end of the day, not only in front of the children but, later, the grandchildren. Not a lush in the bunch. :)

#60 volcanohunter

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 04:00 PM


And I'm a 'stupid man', with a new book cover with me smoking a cigarette in my own kitchen, eh? Say it ain't so. I definitely feel bad about this, because I'm, of course, a great role model for many perverts, and I shouldn't be seen by them smoking.



Not many, ALL, you are the original pervert and best, one by which all others will be judged and ultimately fall short.

Can't argue with either of you.


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