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Marie Stahlbaum or Clara Silberhaus....?


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10 replies to this topic

#1 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:37 AM

I notice that Clara's name varies from production to production. According to the original libretto-(beautifully transcribed by Mel Johnson in Balletalert)-the name goes by Clara Silberhaus, although it can also be noted as Marie Stahlbaum in other productions.
Why the duality...?
Thanks!

#2 Mme. Hermine

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:48 AM

hmm. in chicago it was silberhaus.

#3 richard53dog

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 01:14 PM

hmm. in chicago it was silberhaus.



I looked up some info in Wiki on the source for the libretto E T Hoffmann's The Nutcracker and the Mouse King . There
Clara is described as Clara Stahlbaum.

I don't have a feel for how conclusive that info is though. And whatever the original story contained it's pretty much fair game for change in the process of adaptation into another media. Names particularly are very much changeable.

I like to see what the original source material shows. To keep this somewhat in the bounds of this forum, I was reminded that the same Hoffmann "Tale" is the source material for Coppelia as well as the Olympia story in Offenbach's Tales of Hoffmann. There the doll is named Olympia, her creater Dr Coppelius, there is no Swanhilda and no Franz. That episode, indeed the entire Offenbach opera, is pretty dark unlike it's much sunnier ballet cousin.

#4 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 02:29 PM


hmm. in chicago it was silberhaus.

I looked up some info in Wiki on the source for the libretto E T Hoffmann's The Nutcracker and the Mouse King . There
Clara is described as Clara Stahlbaum. I don't have a feel for how conclusive that info is though. And whatever the original story contained it's pretty much fair game for change in the process of adaptation into another media. Names particularly are very much changeable. I'd like to see what the original source material shows.


Well...according to the original Vsevolozhsky's libretto transcribed in Balletalert, the name is Silberhaus. I always like to look up to the librettos, because sometimes they differ a bit from the stories from which they come from. Same, I guess, with the Clara/Marie issue...

#5 Mel Johnson

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:32 PM

Going by the Dumas retelling of the story, which is what Vsevolozhsky was working with, it was Silberhaus (Silverhouse). I also didn't like the sound of the perhaps more Hoffmanesque Stahlbaum (Steeltree). Given the propensities of modern producers to change everybody's name to something "relevant", I predict a time not too far off when the kids are named Leni Riefenstahl and Heinrich Himmler Stahlhelm.

#6 volcanohunter

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:53 PM

The Penguin edition of Hoffmann's story starts like this:

For the entire twenty-fourth of December, the children of Medical Officer Stahlbaum were not permitted to step inside the intermediary room, much less the magnificent showcase next door. Fritz and Marie sat huddled together in a corner of the back room. The deep evening dusk had set in, and the children felt quite eerie because, as was usual on this day, no light had been brought in. Fritz quite secretly whispered to his younger sister (she had just turned seven) that he had heard a rustling and murmuring and soft throbbing in the locked rooms since early that morning. Also, not long ago (Fritz went on), a short, dark man with a large casket under his arm had stolen across the vestibule. However, said Fritz, he knew quite well that it was none other than Godfather Drosselmeier.



Once Dumas finishes his prologue, his text goes:

Once, in the town of Nuremburg, there lived a highly esteemed presiding judge known as Presiding Judge Silberhaus, which means Silver House.
The judge had a boy and a girl.
The boy, nine years old, was called Fritz.
The girl, seven and a half years old, was called Marie.
They were two lovely children, but so different in face and character that no one would ever have believed them to be brother and sister.



While in Hoffmann's story Stahlbaum is a doctor and Drosselmeier is a judge, who also happens to be an amateur clock maker, in Dumas' version Silberhaus is a judge and Drosselmayer is a doctor, who also makes mechanical toys.

#7 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 04:04 PM

So...let me get this clear.

Hoffmann= Marie Stahlbaum vs. Dumas/Vsevolozhsky= Clara Silberhaus.

Did I get that right...?

#8 volcanohunter

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 04:05 PM

Both Hoffmann and Dumas call her Marie.

#9 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 04:07 PM

Both Hoffmann and Dumas call her Marie.


Oh, so then the last name changes from Hoffmann to Dumas, and the first name from Dumas to Vsevolozhsky...?

Hoffmann= Marie Stahlbaum
Dumas= Marie Silberhaus
Vsevolozhsky= Clara Silberhaus

..am I right now..?

#10 volcanohunter

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 04:08 PM

Right.

#11 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 04:17 PM


Both Hoffmann and Dumas call her Marie.


Oh, so then the last name changes from Hoffmann to Dumas, and the first name from Dumas to Vsevolozhsky...?

Hoffmann= Marie Stahlbaum
Dumas= Marie Silberhaus
Vsevolozhsky= Clara Silberhaus

..am I right now..?


Right.


Thanks, volcanohunter, Mel, Richard, Mme. Hermine...

Oh, boy...talk about an identity disorder...poor girl... :crying:


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