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A Swan Lake with all of Tchaikovsky's music?Does a ballet company use ALL of Tchaikovsky's music for Swan Lake


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#1 BallettomanefromCanada

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 06:27 PM

Does anyone know if any ballet companies around the world at one time or another has danced (at one performance) to all the music that Tchaikovsky wrote for Swan Lake?
That would include the 29 numbers usually found in the complete recordings of Swan Lake, and also:
1) Pas de deux (with Introduction, Variations and Coda) composed for Sobeshchanskaya in 1877;
2) Danse russe, composed for Karpakova in 1877;
3) Danse des cygnes (Valse bluette) (Op. 72/No.11, orchestrated by Drigo);
4) Scene (Un poco di Chopin) (Opus 72/No. 12, orchestrated by Drigo);
5) Black Swan Pas de deux: Variation II: Odile (from Opus 72 for piano - No. 12 L’Espiègle) (orchestrated by Drigo)
Needless to say, if someone did, it would make for a very long evening at the ballet but an interesting concept.
I hope that someone can help with this topic?

#2 Joseph

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 12:04 AM

John Neuemier's version "Illusions Like Swan Lake" uses I believe pretty much all of that music in the ballet. Not sure about Dance Russe though, actually perhaps not. But interesting how he uses the Drigo orchestrations normally in Act IV in Act I for variations.

#3 Mel Johnson

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 03:13 AM

The Bourmeister production originally set on the ballet company of the Maly Opera uses the whole thing in order according to the 1877 score.

#4 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 07:35 AM

The Bourmeister production originally set on the ballet company of the Maly Opera uses the whole thing in order according to the 1877 score.

But I think that he uses the oboe variation from Act III Pas de Six as Odile's solo, instead of the original one-(TPDD). (Still...orrect me if I'm wrong)

#5 Rosa

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 08:20 AM

The Bourmeister production originally set on the ballet company of the Maly Opera uses the whole thing in order according to the 1877 score.

But I think that he uses the oboe variation from Act III Pas de Six as Odile's solo, instead of the original one-(TPDD). (Still...orrect me if I'm wrong)


You are correct, cubanmiamiboy.

#6 Mel Johnson

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 11:54 AM

The version dates from ca. 1953, so who knows how much it got "improved" between then and now, but that sounds like a logical choice. Anyway, wasn't it only 1957-60 that the TPDD music was rediscovered?

#7 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 01:38 PM

I think this music was discovered in 1953-(can't remember where did I read it), but also it is interesting to note that not even this PDD was part of the very first score of march '77...it was added a month later, due to the whole Sobeshchanskaya/Petipa/Minkus/Tchaikovsky ordeal.

If anything, I would love to see how the original Minkus music for S.PDD before Tchaikovsky substituted by his own was like, and also how the original Pas de Six looked like, given that this was the original "Grand Pas" before S. commissioned her own. Also, would like to see what happened to that extra variation that T. composed for her to be added to the existing PDD-(would that be a "lost" piece of music?). The two merrymakers-(dropped "Tempo di Valse" included)-PDD is also intriguing...being so grand its Entrance for such secondary characters. It looks as if Act I, in between the Pas de Trois and this PDD was more exciting...

#8 Mel Johnson

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 02:04 PM

But I don't think it was published with the score. I looked it up, and it was discovered as a repetiteur in '53, but a recording didn't happen until '59 or '60 by Yuri Faier and the Bolshoi orchestra.

#9 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 02:07 PM

So it was still hidden for some years even after being rediscovered until orchestrated...?

#10 Mel Johnson

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 02:20 PM

I think that's what happened. It was just floating around, attached to a score of Gorsky's 1912 staging of Corsair in rehearsal form. I don't know if it were hurryup arranged by Bogatyrev or somebody for the Bourmeister staging, but I've seen photos of the debut of that production and there is definitely an Act III pas de deux for Siegfried and Odile. The Maryinsky Archives have been historically overworked and understaffed, not to mention underpaid, but to their credit, they don't throw things out! At least since about 1990, they've really caught up on the rest of the archival world, and things are easier to find than ever before.

#11 BallettomanefromCanada

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 06:36 PM

John Neuemier's version "Illusions Like Swan Lake" uses I believe pretty much all of that music in the ballet. Not sure about Dance Russe though, actually perhaps not. But interesting how he uses the Drigo orchestrations normally in Act IV in Act I for variations.


You have me totally baffled. Since there is no commercial tape of the "Illusions Like Swan Lake", I had to resort to youtube to check it out. Sadly, there were only 3 clips there. Only one of them (the Black Swan Pas de deux - with Odile in a "white" tutu??) used Tchaikovsky's music from Swan Lake. The other two clips used music that is not from Swan Lake. Since you said that: "I believe pretty much all of that music in the ballet" is used, I remain confused.

#12 BallettomanefromCanada

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 06:40 PM

The Bourmeister production originally set on the ballet company of the Maly Opera uses the whole thing in order according to the 1877 score.


Since the only Boumeister production of Swan Lake that is available on dvd is the Svetlana Zhakarova version with the Scala Ballet company, I will check it out to see if all of the 1877 score was used in that performance. Unless, you know how to obtain (on dvd) another version of the Bourmeister production?

#13 volcanohunter

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 07:13 PM

John Neuemier's version "Illusions Like Swan Lake" uses I believe pretty much all of that music in the ballet. Not sure about Dance Russe though, actually perhaps not. But interesting how he uses the Drigo orchestrations normally in Act IV in Act I for variations.


You have me totally baffled. Since there is no commercial tape of the "Illusions Like Swan Lake", I had to resort to youtube to check it out. Sadly, there were only 3 clips there. Only one of them (the Black Swan Pas de deux - with Odile in a "white" tutu??) used Tchaikovsky's music from Swan Lake. The other two clips used music that is not from Swan Lake. Since you said that: "I believe pretty much all of that music in the ballet" is used, I remain confused.

Neumeier uses more music from the score than most productions of Swan Lake, but not all of it. And a good thing, too, because some of Tchaikovsky's numbers (like the coda Ashton used for his pas de quatre) barely qualify as music. However, Neumeier doesn't always use it in the original order, and he also uses additional pieces by Tchaikovsky, such as the "Meditation" from Souvenir d'un lieu cher.

Most of the ballet is rechoreographed, except for Act 2, which uses an older version of the choreography than most productions, and the "Black Swan" pas de deux. The ballet is reinterpreted as the story of a king very like Ludwig II of Bavaria (the one who built all those fanciful castles). "Odette" is actually a ballerina in a ballet within a ballet--a private performance of Swan Lake watched by the King. In the third act the pas de deux is danced by the King and his fiancée. Up until that point she had been unable to break through to the him (Ludwig is believed to have been gay), but after seeing him enraptured by "Odette," she decided to wear a similar dress to the third-act costume party. The King is overjoyed by her decision and apparent understanding of what makes him tick, and they dance the usual pas de deux together.

http://www.hamburgba...schwanensee.htm

The video is available commerically in Europe, but as far as I know, it's in PAL format. I can't be certain since I own an earlier version of the DVD.
http://www.amazon.de.../dp/B002DU7MEW/

#14 BallettomanefromCanada

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:00 PM

The Bourmeister production originally set on the ballet company of the Maly Opera uses the whole thing in order according to the 1877 score.


Since the only Boumeister production of Swan Lake that is available on dvd is the Svetlana Zhakarova version with the Scala Ballet company, I will check it out to see if all of the 1877 score was used in that performance. Unless, you know how to obtain (on dvd) another version of the Bourmeister production?


I've viewed the Svetlana Zakharova & Roberto Bolle's version with the Scala di Milano Ballet Company. And yes, you are correct. Bourmeister follows closely Tchaikovsky's 1877 score except:
No. 2. Valse (the middle section is omitted)
No. 5. Pas de deux: II. Andante - Allegro - Molto più mosso (the last section is omitted)
No. 5. Pas de deux: III. Tempo di valse
No. 5. Pas de deux: IV. Coda (Allegro vivace)
No. 9. Finale (Andante)
No. 13. Danses des cygnes: c. Danse des cygnes (Tempo di valse)
No. 19. Pas de six: a. Intrada; b. Moderato assai; c. Variation 1(Allegro); e. Variation 3 (Moderato); f. Variation 4 (Allegro)

Pas de deux: d. Variation 2 (Allegro) e.Coda (Allegro molto vivace)
(*** Numéro supplémentaire: NOTE: Inserted for Sobeshchanskaya - 1877)
Danse russe
(*** Numéro supplémentaire: (NOTE: Written for Karpakova - 1877)

From 1895:

Pas de deux: Variation II: Odile (from Opus 72 for piano - No. 12 L’Espiègle, orchestrated by Drigo)

*** Danse des cygnes (Valse bluette) (Opus 72/No.11, orchestrated by Drigo)
*** Scene (Un poco di Chopin) (Opus 72/No. 15, orchestrated by Drigo)

I thank you for suggesting to view the Bourmeister's version. No comment on his staging, blocking and choreography.

#15 BallettomanefromCanada

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:02 PM

John Neuemier's version "Illusions Like Swan Lake" uses I believe pretty much all of that music in the ballet. Not sure about Dance Russe though, actually perhaps not. But interesting how he uses the Drigo orchestrations normally in Act IV in Act I for variations.


You have me totally baffled. Since there is no commercial tape of the "Illusions Like Swan Lake", I had to resort to youtube to check it out. Sadly, there were only 3 clips there. Only one of them (the Black Swan Pas de deux - with Odile in a "white" tutu??) used Tchaikovsky's music from Swan Lake. The other two clips used music that is not from Swan Lake. Since you said that: "I believe pretty much all of that music in the ballet" is used, I remain confused.

Neumeier uses more music from the score than most productions of Swan Lake, but not all of it. And a good thing, too, because some of Tchaikovsky's numbers (like the coda Ashton used for his pas de quatre) barely qualify as music. However, Neumeier doesn't always use it in the original order, and he also uses additional pieces by Tchaikovsky, such as the "Meditation" from Souvenir d'un lieu cher.

Most of the ballet is rechoreographed, except for Act 2, which uses an older version of the choreography than most productions, and the "Black Swan" pas de deux. The ballet is reinterpreted as the story of a king very like Ludwig II of Bavaria (the one who built all those fanciful castles). "Odette" is actually a ballerina in a ballet within a ballet--a private performance of Swan Lake watched by the King. In the third act the pas de deux is danced by the King and his fiancée. Up until that point she had been unable to break through to the him (Ludwig is believed to have been gay), but after seeing him enraptured by "Odette," she decided to wear a similar dress to the third-act costume party. The King is overjoyed by her decision and apparent understanding of what makes him tick, and they dance the usual pas de deux together.

http://www.hamburgba...schwanensee.htm

Alas, you are correct. "Illusions Like Swan Lake" is available at amazon. com (German) and only offered in the PAl system. That is a shame.

The video is available commerically in Europe, but as far as I know, it's in PAL format. I can't be certain since I own an earlier version of the DVD.
http://www.amazon.de.../dp/B002DU7MEW/




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