Scores for Musical Shows

[papeetepatrick]

I thought this would be a good place for those of us very interested in Musical Comedies and Shows, and who have discussed them at length on various threads, from the Sweeney Todd one to the Fred Astaire one, to consolidate some of our thoughts on the music that is bound to be the essential ingredient in this kind of entertainment. Dirac and sidwich and many others have a wealth of knowledge about these kinds of shows and the scores, and it occurred to me after dirac mentioned to me that she'd found an old LP of the old Harold Rome 'Gone With the Wind' score. And I have, since coming to Ballet Talk, not only learned more and more about ballet, but have started going to shows again and listening recently to the scores of many shows I wish I'd seen, and just didn't. I especially regret not having seen the original 'Nine' with Karen Akers and 'The Life' of only a few years ago.

Posters can go all the way back with their favourite scores from back in the day of 'The ziegfeld Follies' and all the way forward to 'Spring Awakening' and 'Grey Gardens'. I think there has even recently been in the Encores! series a revue with some Ziegfeld Follies numbers in it with Kristen Chenoweth, but I'm not sure, I was still waiting to see a review.

The thing about the way this thread can work is that you can write about musical shows from anywhere and, since it should be primarily focussed on the score, favourite scores based purely on listening to recordings is fine too. I know growing up without LPs of 'West Side Story' and 'Gypsy' and 'Funny Girl' would not have been the same as it was having them and wearing out several discs.

My feeling about Broadway has become a little more positive just from having seen 'The Apple Tree' , 'Anne of Green Gables', '110 in the Shade' and planning to see Patti Lupone in 'Gypsy' for Encores! I see that there is more variety than I thought, and that, even if I can't get much interest worked up for more than one listening of 'Grand Hotel', I also have discovered that quite a wider variety of shows is still being produced than all the talk of friends from out of town, most of whom just want to just see 'Phantom' and 'The Lion King'--although I did meet several tourists at '110 in the Shade' who were exceptions, including one kid whe 'sees all the musicals' and claimed that the 'girls are hot' in 'Legally Blonde'. So that maybe more than just the tourist dollar is being explored (of course,it is possible that that is only because that part is already well-taken-care-of that this happens, I don't know.)

Movie scores are cool, too, and we've discussed some of these. It's always irresistible to compare the stage and screen versions, especially from the records. So we can do this here.

[sidwich]

Haha, I got back from a quick trip to NYC to visit friends a few weeks ago, and while there, I did have a chance to catch up a bit (a very little bit) on my theatre going.

Of the relatively recent scores, I've liked Sondheim's "Passion," Coleman and Zippel's "City of Angels," William Finn's "Falsettoes" (and its various incarnations), and Simon and Norman's "The Secret Garden." A little older, but I also adore "Sweeney Todd." Less well-known, but I also like "Romance/Romance" and "I'm Getting My Act Together and Taking it on the Road." And although it's relatively musically simple (because of the limitations of its original star), I think Kander and Ebb's score for "Woman of the Year" is underrated. What I've heard of Strouse and Lerner's "Carmelina" I like a lot.

Going back into the flowering of book musicals post "Oklahoma!", favourites include Rodgers and Hammerstein's "Carousel," Bernstein and Comden/Green's "On the Town," Weill and Lerner's "Love Life, Lane and Harburg's "Finnian's Rainbow," Porter's "Kiss Me, Kate," Meredith Wilson's "The Music Man," Loessor's "Guys and Dolls," Merrill's "Carnival," and Styne and Sondheim's "Gypsy." Although it never really worked, I'm also very fond of some of the music in Rodgers and Hammerstein's "Pipe Dream" and I actually like the score from "On a Clear Day..." a lot (although the libretto is problematic). And "West Side Story" and "My Fairy Lady" are so iconic I tend to lose perspective on them.

The scores from the jazz era don't often hold together as a whole very well, but some of the ones I like pretty much from top to bottom are Rodgers and Hart's "The Boys from Syracuse," "Pal Joey," and "Babes in Arms," the Gershwins' "Girl Crazy" and Porter's "Jubilee." Otherwise, many of the scores from that period have a few hits, filled out with other songs of varying quality.

That's what I can think of at the moment, although I'm sure there's more.

[agnes]

Avenue Q! is coming to San Francisco in Aug 2007 and Los Angeles in Sep 2007. Why does California always lag so far behind Broadway? It's not as if it's the place where musicals come to die. Anyway, I am jazzed and looking forward to watching it. Wish me luck that I will get one of the best, if not the best, seats in the house.

[papeetepatrick]

Sidwich--thanks for getting this thread going at last. I value your knowledge in this area enormously.

Agnes--the shows don't go to 'die' in L.A., (lol), it's just that there is Broadway, which remains as more of a living fact than I had realized until some of the people's conversations here at Ballet Talk got me not only going to more ballet but back to the Musical Theater, which I had stupidly abandoned. In fact, I love to see a good show at the Pantages, having seen 'Hairspray' there in 2004. But the tradition is for tourists to come see a 'Broadway show', I guess, and 'Hairspray' had opened here long before the couple of months it ran in LA, and it's still running.

sidwich--I've had a chance to re-listen to 'City of Angels' since last time we talked about it. I am absolutely mad for 'With Every Breath I Take', and give in to its almost orgasmic melodrama every time I hear it. This is due a revival sometime, and I'd forgotten that there are a lot of clever songs in it that you've never quite heard the like of in shows before, like 'It Needs Work.' In a way, I sometimes have a slight problem with all that ravishing dreamy Hollywood noir music since it's here in a comic situation; I fully admit to being quite capable of getting back into taking all that sinister nighttime stuff seriously (just read McDonald's 'Black Money', so I guess I can't get enough). Like at the end of 1975's 'Farewell, My Lovely' version with Robert Mitchum, the credits have that languorous music that's is perfect LA noir-cliche music. But even so, the score is terrific, even if I may think 'The Life' goes even further because it doesn't rely so much on camp.

Agree on almost all those other shows that I know, but will have to listen to 'Woman of the Year', never got to it. I find that since I am listening to a new one or two a week and finally catching up, I am a lot more tolerant of newer things than I used to be--thoroughly enjoyed 'Miss Saigon', for example, and I didn't expect to. And it's made me have a different perspective of some of the older things too. 'The Sound of Music', for example, I am never going to love as a score the way I do 'South Pacific', but I can see that's a fine show anyway. I think that it's almost freakish success was somewhat difficult for some of us to understand, and we may have reacted to that. I mean, I don't know why 'Oklahoma!' wouldn't have made that much money.

I will soon get to listen to 'Spring Awakening', and if I like the score, I'll go see it. I'm getting all these tons of CDs from the library so I can use the money for the shows. You can certainly report about the shows you saw on your trip on this thread as well, as I'd like to hear about them. Did you see Audra?

I like 'Carnival' too, and have an old LP of that. Also I like some of 'The Golden Apple', a strange show from about 1950 that I bought off eBay a few years ago. Years before that, I did a benefit in which Bibi Osterwald sang her song about 'My Little Pie'--she was as tough as ever, and it was fun doing it. Also like 'Bye Bye Birdie' and Susan Watson was in that same benefit. She sang beautifully. That's enough for now. Maybe dirac will tell us some of her favourites, and I'll put the new ones I listen to on here from time to time.

[papeetepatrick]

Of the relatively recent scores, I've liked Sondheim's "Passion,"

Just watched the taped version of this, which I'd been dreading--only to find I prefer it to all Sondheim I've seen since 'Company' and 'Follies'. It's almost perfect, in fact, and the score is ravishing; and the two that are perhaps most comparable to it--'A Little Night Music' and 'Sunday in the Park with George'--I don't find nearly so inspired. It has to do with the story and, perhaps, that I like this cast; but also it's less silly and coy than some of the lyrics of 'Night Music' (I'm not a fan of things like 'I still want and/or love you', nor of 'Little Death', which I find extremely irritating), and it goes through the aloof sophistication and artiness very quickly; I think the other two never get past it, and may I go on record as possibly being the only person who thinks Elizabeth Taylor was the one thing about the film that does make it worth watching, I don't care if she was 'bad' in some high-toned sense. I can't think of a single thing about 'Night Music' that approaches the original Bergman film. Also, much prefer Donna Murphy to Bernadette Peters (kept going on about 'your Pain...Tiiings...'), so that this was an incredible surprise. I knew it had gotten a good bit of praise, but some of it was lukewarm too. But it turns out to be quite a masterpiece, I'd say. Only Sondheim score I will just be getting to finally this week is 'Pacific Overtures', which I also regret not seeing. Marin Mazzie is superb, and she would have also been a good Eva Dahlbeck/Desiree Armfeldt.

[dirac]

papeetepatrick, thank you so much for doing the heavy lifting with this thread, and thanks also to sidwich and agnes. (There are more of you out there, please chime in!) I will post at a decent length eventually.

I feel bad about saying the following, because I had looked forward to seeing and hearing Passion and expected to like it, but I was disappointed when I saw the broadcast on PBS and disappointed also by the CD.

It's not quite to the topic, but has anybody seen Xanadu? I dearly loved the movie and this show actually sounds like fun.

[papeetepatrick]

It's not quite to the topic, but has anybody seen Xanadu? I dearly loved the movie and this show actually sounds like fun.

Thanks, dirac, I haven't myself. I'm really trudging ahead in a way I wouldn't have expected in terms of listening to 3-10 new scores, or recordings of revivals of shows, etc., a week.

One thing that I've found out that stands out very sharply about listening to scores that you haven't seen in their show: There is a very strong difference in which ones you want to listen to by themselves many times and which ones you only want to listen to once.

In the first category are, for my more recent discoveries: Nine (both 1982 and 2003 versions, both of which are gorgeous. I knew the old score with Karen Akers and Raul Julia and the sublime Liliane Montevecchi doing 'Folies Bergere', but the more recent recording with Antonio Banderas and Mary Stuart Masterson is also wonderful (Masterson sounds terrific.); Sondheim's Pacific Overtures; Cy Coleman's City of Angels and The Life (I know I keep mentioning these ad nauseum); and, surprisingly Marvin Hamlisch's Sweet Smell of Success, which was not a hit, but has some beautiful songs in it (I wouldn't say his 'film-noir music' technique is quite as good as Coleman's, though.) I also agree with sidwich about I'm Getting My Act Together... as I am a big fan of Cryer/Ford. Nine is definitely the favourite among these, and Ms. Akers often sings her two big songs in her shows. Maury Yeston's score is surely among the best Broadway scores ever written, although the music may be greater than the lyrics.

In the second category are Miss Saigon (even though I mention above I enjoyed listening to it, but I'd need to see it before listening again), Spamalot, The Producers, Grand Hotel, Marie Christine, Light in the Piazza, and definitely Wicked, which is of little interest to me musically even with exquisite Ms. Chenoweth; The Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, and doubtless a number of others..Some of these scores have one climax after the other to give too frequent gratification so that the actual climax seems anticlimactic, and this causes a sense of musical strain that I find irritating.

A possible third category, much smaller, is things like My One and Only and Crazy for You, which are enjoyable because of their original Gershwin, but I haven't really wanted to re-listen to them, because all the songs are also done by many singers I'd rather hear, once I've heard how Tommy Tune and Twiggy, etc., are going to do them.

[dirac]

I’m copying and pasting 4mrdncr’s post below from another thread as I thought it would fit in here:

The movie "Camelot" because of the beauty of its sets & costumes, and use of all those castles in Spain (Alcazar of Segovia and Coca especially), and the fact it had only 6-7 songs--I HATE musicals with too many songs--that FORWARDED THE PLOT ACTION within them, rather than bringing it all to a standstill while everyone sings interminably. (I do like that other Lerner & Lowe classic: My Fair Lady, even tho' it has too many songs, because they are mostly funny lyrics; and no one has pulled off that princess transformation like Audrey Hepburn in her gown & tiara.)

I guess I never really thought of ‘My Fair Lady’ as having too many songs (it’s one of my very favorite scores, a painfully obvious choice I know).

[aurora]

I’m copying and pasting 4mrdncr’s post below from another thread as I thought it would fit in here:

The movie "Camelot" because of the beauty of its sets & costumes, and use of all those castles in Spain (Alcazar of Segovia and Coca especially), and the fact it had only 6-7 songs--I HATE musicals with too many songs--that FORWARDED THE PLOT ACTION within them, rather than bringing it all to a standstill while everyone sings interminably. (I do like that other Lerner & Lowe classic: My Fair Lady, even tho' it has too many songs, because they are mostly funny lyrics; and no one has pulled off that princess transformation like Audrey Hepburn in her gown & tiara.)

I guess I never really thought of ‘My Fair Lady’ as having too many songs (it’s one of my very favorite scores, a painfully obvious choice I know).

I think its a question of how many songs are too many--4mrdancr is quite upfront that she doesn't want very many in her musicals.

Personally I love My Fair Lady, and oh, tons of musicals that probably have "too many songs" for some people's tastes.

Listening to Kiss Me Kate,

Aurora

[papeetepatrick]

I dont know why I originally forgot what is one of my all-time favourite scores--Arlen's gorgeous 'House of Flowers', with 2 Ladies in De Shade, Sleepin' Bee, Waitin', 'Slide, Boys, Slide', 'One Man Ain't Quite Enough'. They did an Encores! of it a few years ago, which I completely was unaware of, but since the book is a bit mild for some tastes, this one has not ever really caught as a cult show. But the score has always been a gold mine for singers--Capote said Diahann Carroll's beautiful 'Sleepin' Bee' was the best, but Streisand's elaborate one is also a masterpiece, and one of her best pieces of work. Arlen has another Caribbean-based score with Lena Horne in 'Jamaica'--this has some pleasant songs, but not quite up to Arlen's usual standard, and nowhere near up to standard of 'House of Flowers.'

I see shows like 'My Fair Lady' as having the proper balance of tunes. If they're all good, as 'fair lady's' are, that's really what a musical is about. The recent pared-down book of 'Gypsy' shows what a huge score that one has, but that's what it's all about, those numbers.. The other extreme, very few songs, is well-illustrated by the movie version of 'Louisiana Purchase', which has only 2 or 3 songs from the original. Somehow they turned it into a good movie, but I don't know how they left out all those Irving Berlin songs from the original. I think 'One Touch of Venus' in film version has also left out a lot of songs, maybe someone else knows the original to verify this. The movie with Ava Gardner has 'Speak Low', of course, but I can't remember much else, and it's been some time since I saw it.

Another discovery I made recently is Jule Styne's 'Subways are for Sleeping', with wonderful singing by Carol Lawrence and others. It didn't last too long, though, and I don't think has ever been revived. Phyllis Newman is also funny in it, this may be what she won Tony for.

[glebb]

Though many recent dancers are very gorgeous, none move me the way Fonteyn, Sibley, Haydee, Fracci, Kirkland and Makarova have.

There were thrilling performances at NYST, Kennedy Center and The Met in the 70s and 80s that just can't be matched for me.

I can't imagine having goose bumps the way I did when I saw Fonteyn from the wings in Ben Stevenson's Cinderella or Royal Ballet in DC - Shades with Sibley and Dowell into Fille with Nureyev and Park. There was a matinee of ABT in which Gelsey and Misha danced Kingdom of the Shades, next Gelsey danced Leaves are Fading and the program finished with Alonzo in Carmen. Opening night of Misha's Don Q, Makarova and Dowell in Giselle, the Stuttgart of the late 70s at The Met, NYCB premiere of Robbins The Four Seasons, performances of Tzigane, Dances at a Gathering, Farrell's chic in Union Jack, Saland in Emeralds, the Ballo premiere -- the list goes on. The Joffrey of the 70s was beautiful and thrilling for me too.

I must say that in recent years my passion has switched over to Broadway Musicals and plays. Wicked, NINE, Follies, Pacific Overtures, Cabaret, Fiddler, The Light in the Piazza, Sweeney Todd, Jacques Brel, Grey Gardens, and Curtains have sent me over the moon. I go way back with Broadway having seen Pippin and A Chorus Line at the end of their original Broadway runs, Shenandoah, A Matter of Gravity, Death Trap, Ballroom, On The Twentieth Century, Gorey Stories, Sweeney Todd, Evita, Bent, NINE, Dreamgirls, Woman of the Year, The Heiress, Agnes of God, Torch Song Trilogy, Jerome Robbins Broadway, House of Blue Leaves, Anything Goes, City of Angels all the way up to CAROUSEL The Boy From Oz, Thoroughly Modern Millie, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and Mary Poppins. I love what David Leveaux did with NINE and Fiddler and what Doyle did with Sweeney even though I was bored with Company. Mendes did a brilliant job with Gypsy and Hytner's Carousel was one of Broadway's all time highlights.

Not sure if what I've written fits in this topic properly but it sure was fun to reminisce!

[papeetepatrick]

Not sure if what I've written fits in this topic properly but it sure was fun to reminisce!

That was all terrific, but if you have favourites among the scores and composers and lyricists, feel free to tell us that too. You certainly have seen more than anybody I know!

[glebb]

LOL - oh yes the thread is about words and music!

I'm not sure I can write intelligently enough about that but I've loved Lerner and Loewe, Sondheim, Berstein and Rogers and Hammerstein the most. Oh and there's Rogers and Hart (Makarova's revival of On Your Toes!) Showboat of course has wonderful music. Guys and Dolls and Kiss Me Kate are both excellent. The composer of Grey Gardens did a wonderful job using both of the Edie's actual words in the score. Sondheim is probably the tops for me. I did not like Bounce but I love all of his other musicals that I've seen. I saw a production of Pacific Overtures in the 80s at The Promenade Theatre that was simple and magnificent. Chicago's Shakespeare has done both Pacific Overtures and A Little Night Music. ALNM was directed by the man who later went on to do The Color Purple on Broadway. Original and recent Sweeney's were both beyond excellent. I saw the original three times and the recent production once (a night where I swear I levitated from my seat the whole show). Recent Pacific Overtures was wonderful and I liked the recent Follies better than the London production of the 80s. I wish I had seen the legendary original version of Follies and I wish I had seen COCO.

I'm lucky I at least saw Hepurn in A Matter of Gravity. Oh and I need to mention a few other wonderful plays: Lettice and Lovage, Orpheus Descending, Shirley Valentine, Marlene and Master Class.

[papeetepatrick]

I wish I had seen the legendary original version of Follies

Thanks, glebb! I think this is the only thing I've seen that you haven't, and it was pretty wonderful, especially Dorothy Collins in 'Losing My Mind' and perhaps even more, with John McMartin, in 'Too Many Mornings', which I sometimes think may be Sondheim's most beautiful song.

[dirac]

The other extreme, very few songs, is well-illustrated by the movie version of 'Louisiana Purchase', which has only 2 or 3 songs from the original. Somehow they turned it into a good movie, but I don't know how they left out all those Irving Berlin songs from the original. I think 'One Touch of Venus' in film version has also left out a lot of songs, maybe someone else knows the original to verify this. The movie with Ava Gardner has 'Speak Low', of course, but I can't remember much else, and it's been some time since I saw it.

I haven’t seen it for years either but my recollection is that the movie of ‘One Touch of Venus’ with two stars generally not associated with musicals (Robert Walker and Gardner, although the latter played Julie in the third film version of ‘Show Boat,' as you know I'm sure ). It was all too common – in fact, it was customary – for film adaptations of Broadway shows made before the 1950s or thereabouts to cut many if not all of the songs and substitute new ones that usually weren’t very good (think “On the Town”). (sidwich, do chime in if you're reading this.)

I did not like Bounce but I love all of his other musicals that I've seen.

glebb, I second papeetepatrick's words of encouragement. Tell us more, please. What was 'Bounce' like, BTW?

[glebb]

Something about me and musicals at The Goodman.

'Bounce' seemed fun at the start but lost its charm for me very quickly.

The music seemed incredibly bad to me but maybe Sondheim was trying to be old fashioned and I didn't get it.

I remember laughing when Jane Powell died and realizing that I was the only one laughing and it was indeed a serious moment.

I liked the first song in Act II but the ending of the song ruined it for me.

I also did not like 'The Visit' at The Goodman.

[sidwich]

It was all too common – in fact, it was customary – for film adaptations of Broadway shows made before the 1950s or thereabouts to cut many if not all of the songs and substitute new ones that usually weren’t very good (think “On the Town”). (sidwich, do chime in if you're reading this.)

Usually, when a musical is adapted to screen at least a few numbers are cut. Sometimes it's for time constraints. Sometimes it's for the inevitable tightening that occurs in screen adaptations (most movie musicals from the 1930's-1950's had between 5-7 songs while stage musicals usually had between 10-12 and sometimes more). Sometimes the reason for the song just didn't exist in an onscreen adaptations; for example, many older musicals included songs that were performed in front of a curtain while a scenery change occurred. A good example is "More I Cannot Wish You" in "Guys and Dolls" which occurs before the sewer tunnel scene onstage. With the magic of movie editing, it wasn't necessary and so it was dispatched.

With a lot of the stage to screen adaptations during the 1930s and 1940s, oftentimes pieces were cut because they were considered too "intellectual" or "risque" for the middle America that movies were aimed at. Things that were acceptable to a New York audience weren't necessarily considered acceptable other parts of the country, either on the naughtiness scale or the braineness scale. "On the Town" with its Bernstein/Comden and Green score definitely fell victim on that front which had about half its score replaced, but so did "A Connecticut Yankee" which had its score completely replaced in the film adaption, and any number of other very interesting scores. "Pal Joey" had part of its score replaced by other Rodgers and Hart songs, and its dark underbelly ripped out.

I actually haven't seen the film of "One Touch of Venus" in a while, but as I recall much of the score registers fairly high on the naughty and brainy scale (courtesy of the duo of Kurt Weill and Ogden Nash who probably gave some lucky film executive nightmares) and as result probably required some surgery.

ETA: I don't think that judicious editing of the material is a bad thing with film adaptations. The adaptations that were done in the 1950s and onward, I often feel are almost too faithful, and take on an almost museum-like feel. They're nice as reproductions of the original, but I don't feel they take on an energy and life of their own.

[papeetepatrick]

ETA: I don't think that judicious editing of the material is a bad thing with film adaptations. The adaptations that were done in the 1950s and onward, I often feel are almost too faithful, and take on an almost museum-like feel. They're nice as reproductions of the original, but I don't feel they take on an energy and life of their own.

See your point, but don't think massive cuttings of really good scores is the way to do it. I'd rather end up with a slightly museum feel than see fine songs get cut out. I keep harping on the most unforgivable, 'On a Clear Day You Can See Forever'. Many don't like 'Gypsy', the movie, as much as I do, but they only cut 'Together' from it as far as I can tell. I think 'Cabaret' kept most of its songs, but, although it's considered a fine film, I'm not a big fan of Kander and Ebb, and so I wouldn't have much cared if they had wanted to leave some of those songs out. There are more, but things like 'Louisiana Purchase', that I really had no idea of before seeing the movie I can find more acceptable with their song cuttings, because I don't have a preconceived idea. Indeed some of the R & H and L & L shows do transfer to the screen slightly moribund, but those scores were probably too well-known by people all over the country who didn't see the B'way show, that it wasn't really an option to leave out those songs. I think one of the reasons 'Hello, Dolly!' does work for me is that do such a good job of the score, even though I don't consider Herman to be one of the greatest composers of musicals. But it's true: not only the well-known classics like 'Band Wagon' and 'Singin' in the Rain', but the Judy Garland 'A Star is Born' do have a specialness that films like, say, 'Carousel', simply do not (at least in the sense of seeing something really new.)

[sidwich]

See your point, but don't think massive cuttings of really good scores is the way to do it.

I think it depends on the material. For example, "Cabaret" on film is quite a bit different than "Cabaret" on stage. Fosse's vision was substantially different than Prince's, and there are a number of changes in both plot and score (moreso plot) than reflect that vision, and it works in its own right as a work of art as opposed to the filmed reproduction of another work.

Personally, my favorite stage to screen adaptation is the 1947 adaptation of "Good News." Even with the bizarro casting of Peter Lawford as a football star, it has a wonderful energy and vibrancy. It keeps some although not all of the original De Sylva/Brown/Henderson score, adds other songs, and wraps it all up in some very inventive staging by Bob Alton and Chuck Walters. I think it's an example that works well in its own right while keeping the spirit of the highly successful original.

[glebb]

"Quel fromage."

I love "Good News"

I own it on DVD.

[papeetepatrick]

See your point, but don't think massive cuttings of really good scores is the way to do it.

I think it depends on the material. For example, "Cabaret" on film is quite a bit different than "Cabaret" on stage.

Good point about 'Cabaret', but it's not an example of score-cutting, is it? I saw them both and didn't notice any songs gone, but then I'd only thought a couple were particularly distinguished anyway. In any case, the public knew only 'Cabaret' and 'Wilkommen' as well-known songs. By contrast, most knew before seeing the film of 'South Pacific' that they could look forward to 'Some Enchanted Evening', 'Younger than Springtime', 'Happy Talk', 'Bali H'ai', 'Wonderful Guy', 'Wash that Man Right Outta my Hair', and 'There is Nothing Like a Dame'. There is constant loathing of this adaptation, which I find exaggerated, even though I know the colorized stuff in parts of it is a little ridiculous, given that it was filmed near Tahiti, etc.. Fact is, that movie is perfectly cast, and Mitzi Gaynor, who never really gives another important performance, brings a perfect new freshness to things like 'Cockeyed Optimist' that Mary Martin's voice did not possess--no 'all-American girl' there in the purest vocal sense. Rosanno Brazzi was well-dubbed by Giorgio Tozzi and was at his hottest--so much so he was even featured in the somewhat biologically-oriented documentary 'Mondo Cane' (which even now is one of the most bizarre films ever made, what with 'More' without words in different variations almost turning it into a form of freak musical), as the necessary Italian to succeed Valentino (there were some generations in between that the film didn't cover, but nevermind). So that sometimes new casting, however controversial, will transform the musical from the stage, even if you disagree with me about 'South Pacific' (most do, but I think its strengths far outweigh its weaknesses, and it does successfully convey the magic of Polynesia--which I am sure has never even been remotely done in a single stage production of this show. It had been a very expensive show, and took its toll on everybody in the B'way production, as I recall, and so they then did the pleasant but banal Harold Rome show about summer camp, I believe, 'Wish You Were Here'.)

Thanks, both sidwich and glebb, for mentioning 'Good News'. I'm going to order it up forthwith.

[dirac]

The adaptations that were done in the 1950s and onward, I often feel are almost too faithful, and take on an almost museum-like feel. They're nice as reproductions of the original, but I don't feel they take on an energy and life of their own.

I’m not sure if their lifelessness, which I concede readily, is due so much to their faithfulness as a lack of imagination and initiative in the filmmaking.

I also suspect that the better a property works in one medium, the less likely it is to work in another and it’s easier to adapt a second rank work and make a success of it than to try to deal with something that worked to near perfection in its original form and context.

even though I know the colorized stuff in parts of it is a little ridiculous, given that it was filmed near Tahiti, etc.

An example of the director, Joshua Logan, trying to show some imagination and initiative and just making a boo-boo.

Regarding good stage to screen adaptations, I think ‘The Sound of Music,’ like it or not, has to be on the list.

[papeetepatrick]

Regarding good stage to screen adaptations, I think ‘The Sound of Music,’ like it or not, has to be on the list.

Yes, it is, and interestingly, to me it is for the same reasons I think 'South Pacific' works, right down to replacing Mary Martin with a purer voice. But the location shooting, while technically better than in 'south pacific' mostly, is better-known to most people who would see it; and while it looks beautiful, I don't think Austria is as hard to evoke onstage as a South Pacific island (even though the actual islands, 'vanikoro' etc., from the book, were in the New Hebrides, and the real Bali H'ai, acc. to Michener is/was a filthy village in the Solomon Islands that is still off-limits to all but the most intrepid, etc., he just liked the sound of the name). Actually, there were some noteworthily good reviews of 'South Pacific' (Bosley Crowther mainly praises it, including even the colorizing to some degree) and people did like it at the time, though not in a phenomenal way like 'The Sound of Music'. Anyway, some locations are still more remote and less amenable to importation than others--Polynesian restaurants outside the islands themselves, long in bad odour, still are; but you can find a very satisfying Schnitzel with Noodles in most large cities.

[carbro]

Regarding good stage to screen adaptations, I think 'The Sound of Music,' like it or not, has to be on the list.

But would have been even that much better without that awful added song, "Somewhere in My Youth or Childhood," or whatever the title is. "Something Good," a misnomer if ever. Probably the worst song Rodgers ever wrote. Edited August 10, 2007 by carbro

[sidwich]

Good point about 'Cabaret', but it's not an example of score-cutting, is it? I saw them both and didn't notice any songs gone, but then I'd only thought a couple were particularly distinguished anyway.

Well, Fosse cut the entire Herr Schultz and Fraulein Schneider subplot, and nearly all the songs that take place outside the cabaret. All told it's about six or seven songs, so not inconsiderable. It all contributes to the claustrophobic and surreal feeling of being in the cabaret, which is part of why the film works so well. As I said, it's a different vision than onstage.

Regarding good stage to screen adaptations, I think ‘The Sound of Music,’ like it or not, has to be on the list

Yes, and another good example of editing and cutting the original material to work for the screen. Now, I sometimes find it jarring to watch it onstage because the changes that were made to adapt to screen make the material flow so much better, especially the changes with "Raindrops on Roses" and "The Lonely Goatherd." I do rather miss the two songs with the Baroness and Max that ended up being cut, but I can see how it was probably the right call.

I actually prefer the recordings with Mary Martin in both "South Pacific" and "The Sound of Music" to the film soundtracks. I think the unique combination of warmth and power in her voice are perfect for the material (which is not surprising since both were written for her).

The casting that makes the film of "South Pacific" work for me is actually John Kerr as Cable, dubbed voice and all. I do agree that Josh Logan's film is not nearly as bad as it's been made out at times, but I only find Mitzi Gaynor to be an average Nellie