A good start to the "good movie" season

[canbelto]

I just saw Syriana, and felt so strongly about it I wrote a "spoiler" to it at www.themoviespoiler.com.

The guy (Dan) said that my summary of the review was excellent, not to brag or anything <g>. If you've seen the movie, and want to read my summary, simply click here.

I thought the movie was excellent.

[canbelto]

Ok so the Globe noms came out today, and it seems as if it's Brokeback Mountain's year. I havent seen the movie yet, but I'm happy about the nominations mostly. Interesting to see how Goodnight and Goodluck got many nominations, while Syriana was completely shut-out. Personally I loved both films, although if pressed I think Goodnight and Goodluck was probably the better-constructed film. Syriana had a lot of storylines and I didn't REALLY get what was going on until about halfway through the movie.

Just as I predicted, while the race for Best Actor is loaded with talent, the actress field is relatively weak.

[dirac]

You were indeed correct, canbelto. As a rule the Best Actor awards tend to be the most competitive, because there are more and better roles for actors than actresses in the kinds of pictures that get nominated. In every year there’s a deserving performance(s) by an actor that gets left out in the cold because there are just too many good ones out there, while the Best Actress nominations get filled out with entrants of the It’s-An-Honor-Just-To-Be-Nominated-But-You-Have-No-Chance kind.

I thought it noteworthy that only independent films were nominated in the Best Picture category.

[canbelto]

I predict the Oscar Best Actor category: Joaquin Phoenix, David Straithorn, Heath Ledger, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and perhaps Russell Crowe as Cinderella Man, although that tanked badly at the box office and just doesnt seem to be getting the pre-awards buzz. Personally I hope Johnny Depp gets a nod in "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory." It was a really eccentric performance that IMO worked very well.

As for females, I think Reese Witherspoon and Zhang Ziyi will probably be nominated, as will Felicity Huffman, but after that it's an open book. And Reese will probably take away the statuette.

But it'll be the Best Actor category that's the race horse.

[perky]

Personally I hope Johnny Depp gets a nod in "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory." It was a really eccentric performance that IMO worked very well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

May I suggest a rather odd choice for best supporting actor? Deep Roy as all of the Oompa Loompa's from "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory." He sings, dances, and acts the part with an irresistable mischievious glee.

[Treefrog]

May I suggest a rather odd choice for best supporting actor? Deep Roy as all of the Oompa Loompa's from "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory." He sings, dances, and acts the part with an irresistable mischievious glee.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I thought the portrayal of the third Oompa Loompa in the back row after the Augustus Gloop episode was exceptionally weak. But the fifth one from the left in the Violet Beauregard scene? Masterful, just masterful! :blush:

[canbelto]

I think Frank Langella (Bill Paley) should definitely got a nod as Best Supporting Actor for Goodnight and Goodluck.

While we're doing supporting parts, I thought Rosamund Pike (Jane) was one of the best things about Pride and Prejudice, as was Brenda Bethlyn.

Rosario Dawson was also terrific as Mimi.

[dirac]

We can speculate more once nominations are announced, but we're wandering a little afield at this point. :blush:

[canbelto]

Ok my friend bought me "Memoirs of a Geisha" for Christmas and after reading it I can understand the critical pans the movie has gotten. And I'd say it's not so much a problem with the movie as with the source material. Arthur Golden wrote 2/3 of a great novel. Maybe even 3/4 of one. But the last chapters of Memoirs of a Geisha completely stretch credibility to the point of being ridiculous. Novels, like movies, need to get better as they proceed. Golden's novel peters out in the worst way.

I might see the movie, but after reading the novel, I can't say I'm really interested.

But has anyone seen Munich, Casanova, Brokeback Mountain, and Match Point? All are getting excellent reviews. If I werent holed up with a cold I'd see them myself.

[dirac]

Munich hasn’t opened in my area yet. I plan to see Brokeback Mountain this week but will most likely post my thoughts, if any, over on the General Reading and Lit thread, as it may be interesting to compare and contrast the story with the movie.

I saw Memoirs of a Geisha and I thought Rob Marshall was handed more than he could handle. Would love to turn Luhrmann or Almodovar loose on this material – that would have been fun. I still recommend the picture, however, because it’s eye candy – not only three gorgeous leading ladies to look at, albeit of the wrong nationality, but also my samurai harem king, Ken Watanabe, and decor and costumes to gurgle over.

canbelto, I hope you feel better!

[Helene]

I still recommend the picture, however, because it’s eye candy – not only three gorgeous leading ladies to look at, albeit of the wrong nationality, but also my samurai harem king, Ken Watanabe, and decor and costumes to gurgle over. 

It has been noted pretty widely in the press: all three main actresses -- Zhang Ziyi, Gong Li, and former Miss Malaysia Michelle Yeoh -- are not ethnically Japanese. Korea-Canadian actress Sandra Oh had this to say on the issue in the June/July 2005 issue of Bust (p.51):

Q (Laurie Pike): You have no compunction about playing characters that are Japanese or Chinese, I see.

A (Sandra Oh):  Yeah, I started that way.  I played a Chinese girl, Evelyn Lau; the first first thing that I did was [the Canadian telefilm] The Diary of Evelyn Lau.  I play Japanese characters, too.  I encourage it.  I completely understand saying that you want to be specific to the ethnicity, but that rule never applies to white people.

Response: That's true.

Continued: Ralph Fiennes can play an English person, a German person, a Polish person, a Jewish person.  He is handsome, Caucasian-looking-ish man.  So, to American audiences, Europe looks like that.  Europe does not look like that.  But that is the image we have been fed for 60 years, so we accept that.  But what I have big problems with is when people put those limits on me...Because when you meet someone, you never say, "I met Joe Schmoe, and he's Irish-French."  But there always has to be a quantifier or qualifier when it comes to me.

[canbelto]

This is getting off topic, but it's something I've thought about so ... indulge me. As a Chinese woman, I have mixed feelings about the Memoirs cast. In China, these actresses have taken quite a bit of flak, because Chinese and Japanese relations have historically been very poor. But forget that for a second.

On the one hand, I think it's wonderful that Gong Li, Zhang Ziyi, and Michelle Yeoh are finally getting mainstream Hollywood recognition, because all of them have been doing wonderful work for years. Zhang in particular is my age, but I've never seen her give a bad performance and I've seen her give quite a few astonishing performances. If Gong, Zhang, and Yeoh get an Oscar nod I'll be thrilled for them.

OTOH ... I've seen stills and the trailer of the movie, and I thought something was terribly "off." And then I realized it: you can put Zhang/Gong/Yeoh in a kimono, wooden clogs, white makeup, and a split-peach hairdo, but they still don't look anything like geishas (or at least historical pictures of geishas). Because while it may not be obvious to Western eyes, Chinese people and Japanese people look absolutely NOTHING alike. Of course there are individual variations (my sister for instance is often mistaken as Japanese) but in general, their facial structure and features are completely different. I can't really explain it, but you can just tell.

Of course, in the end, it's a moot point, because there are far weirder examples of ethnic mixups in Hollywood history. For example, Natalie Wood (born Natalia Zakharenko) playing the Puerto-Rican Maria in West Side Story. And there are weird mixups in Chinese cinema too. For instance, in the recent "2046" Tony Leung spoke Cantonese, Gong and Zhang spoke Mandarin, and this other girl in the movie spoke Japanese, but none of them acted like their was any language barrier. Whereas in real life Cantonese and Mandarin are mutually incomprehensible, as is Japanese of course. I wondered about this weirdness until someone told me that in Asia, these movies would be completely dubbed over according to region/language, or subtitled, so there's often no attempt to match dialects in these movies. But still, as someone who speaks Mandarin, the movie was absolutely bizarre for this reason.

[dirac]

I understand what Oh is saying, but I don’t think it’s quite the same. (She's also conflating race with nationality, and it's a different although related issue.) It's not as if Hollywood makes major movies set in a Japanese context with all-Japanese leading characters every day of the week. (There is also a long Hollywood history of casting Chinese as Japanese and vice versa, and it wasn’t intended as forward looking race blind casting, but proceeded more along the lines of “No one can tell the difference anyway, they’re all dark and slanty eyed, right?” And that’s when they bothered to cast Asian actors rather than putting some white person in ludicrous makeup.) Fiennes isn’t going to be cast as an Asian man tomorrow – which is actually progress. (As recently as a few decades ago, a white star with a higher profile might have been cast in Watanabe’s role.) However, the picture appears to be going over well in Japan, and my own view of the matter is, If they don’t mind, I don’t mind.

Note: I was posting as the same time as canbelto and so did not respond to her comments.

Edited December 27, 2005 by dirac

[dirac]

I neglected to add that in this particular instance, I think that the international profile of the three women stars was more germane to their casting than indifference to nuances of nationality. All of them are well known to Western art house audiences.

[Helene]

I don't think what Oh said contradicts what you said, dirac: she believes that as an Korean actress, she should be able to play Japanese and Chinese characters, and not held to a more strict standard than a Caucasian actor who can play any pan-North American-European part, and then be typecast by role.

canbelto, what you wrote reminds me of The Turandot Project: when Zhang Yimou directed Turandot in Florence, the costumes were a mix of Chinese costumes that looked "period." When the production moved to The Forbidden City, Yimou insisted that the costumes be redone in the Ming Dynasty period, because every Chinese person (not to mention knowledgeable foreigners) who attended would notice the mismatch of costumes and setting. Using the costumes from the Florence production would have been the equivalent of having Colonial Williamsburg tour guides dressed in costumes from Gone with The Wind.

[dirac]

Bringing the topic back to movies of the season, as I ought to have done before, “Breakfast on Pluto” began playing in my area this week – anothe one I’m looking forward to. Cillian Murphy is a new favorite of mine.

[canbelto]

Ok I just got a warning from a friend whose judgement I trust. He told me that while Munich might be an "important" film, going to see it is a little like volunteering for a root canal. He told me that it's that excruciating, overlong, and has some of the by-now tiresome Spielberg cliches, like a mix of violence with maudlin sentimentality.

He did tell me however that Casanova was two tons of fun

And to give you some idea of what I'm talking about when I say Zhang despite all the makeup and costumes still doesn't look like a geisha:

Zhang as geisha

Actual historical geisha

ETA: I realize all geisha do not look alike, but I hope the two pictures give you some idea of the large differences in appearance between the Chinese and Japanese.

[chrisk217]

Because while it may not be obvious to Western eyes, Chinese people and Japanese people look absolutely NOTHING alike. Of course there are individual variations (my sister for instance is often mistaken as Japanese) but in general, their facial structure and features are completely different. I can't really explain it, but you can just tell.

Just a note to say that it is obvious to western eyes! Even eyes from, say, the south of Europe (if they have seen enough arthouse & martial arts movies). We have debated the matter with my friends and we think it diminishes the pictorial accuracy, which to us was the main draw of the movie (the recreation of the Ghion Geisha world).

[canbelto]

chris, I'm glad that it is obvious even to Westerners Seriously, (and this will be my final word on the topic) the jarring appearance of Zhang, Gong, and Yeoh in Japanese geisha getup is so jarring precisely because geisha aren't just Japanese, they're uber-Japanese. Geisha apprentices were carefully selected to represent the epitome of Japanese beauty and grace. The less fortunate were weeded out in this most competitive of professions. Thus my reaction when looking at pictures of geisha is that they all kind of look alike. And I don't believe it's my "insensitive" Chinese eyes -- I think it's because they indeed were selected because of a certain "look" that was so prized in Japan in those times. Zhang, Gong, and Yeoh are all gorgeous ladies, but they simply don't have that geisha look, and giving them an obi, split peach hairdo, white makeup, and kimono can't change that.

[Anthony_NYC]

Bringing the topic back to movies of the season, as I ought to have done before, “Breakfast on Pluto” began playing in my area this week – anothe one I’m looking forward to. Cillian Murphy is a new favorite of mine.

I found that movie thoroughly irritating and tedious. The protagonist makes a career out of being a helpless waif--I hate helpless waifs!--and for some reason we're supposed to admire and identify with him. Those who want to make the world believe gay men are all juvenile, irresponsible, and self-centered will find plenty of fodder here. The thing goes on and on and on, too, one pointless episode after another.

"Brokeback Mountain," on the other hand, is superb in every department. A genuinely great movie. I don't want to say more about it because it's probably best to see it the first time without knowing too much about it.

[dirac]

Anthony_NYC and chris217, thank you for joining the discussion.

As it happens I saw Breakfast on Pluto last night and my view was quite different. I agree that much depends on how you take the central character. He’s a fantasist who lives in his own world, and ultimately he’s a survivor, but I didn’t think we were intended to identify with him or even admire him. He’s too strange for that and he’s not bidding for our sympathy. You could say that the picture rambles, but I took it as an variant of the picaresque. Lots of good actors in addition to Murphy, who’s awesome – Liam Neeson, Brendan Gleeson, Stephen Rea (as an inside joke, mooning after a guy in a skirt again – some men never learn ), Ian Hart, Steven Waddington, and damned if Bryan Ferry doesn’t show up, too. The picture walks a fine line and succeeds, IMO.

Another note: many, many movies use a pop music soundtrack in order to establish a period atmosphere and comment on or highlight the action. Most often it’s done in an obvious and hamhanded fashion. The songs chosen for Breakfast on Pluto, which range from pop to classical, are handled as well as I’ve ever seen, or heard, I should say.

People are all over the map on Munich for a variety of reasons. I have not seen it, but I suspect it’s one of those films where you can’t go by even the most ordinarily reliable judgment, you must see for yourself if you're interested....

[canbelto]

I finally saw this tonight, and agree that as a movie, it's not much. For one, Zhang and Gong sound like theyre phonetically pronouncing every syllable from cue cards. The story upon close examination is pretty dull, especially after Dragonlady Hatsumomo exits. BUT ... at some point I stopped watching the movie, and started watching the hair. What hair! From Gong Li's (Hatsumomo) wild dragonlady locks (that seemed to have a life of its own) to Zhang's (Sayuri) neat split peach bun (with a red bow in between) to Michelle Yeoh's (Mameha) casual chic semi-updo (with totally unrealistic brown highlights), it was a hair fetishist's heaven. Throw in Pumpkin's post war banged bob too. Never have I seen such great hair in a movie.

Some things in the movie were distracting. For example, the MTV-music-awards style dance show for Sayuri. And I noticed the inconsistencies in the collar -- maiko are supposed to wear a red collar, while geisha wear white. It's a not-so-subtle clue that the maiko has become a "real woman." But oh well.

Ivy

p.s. I thought Hatsumomo's wild dragonlocks wo by a mile

[atm711]

I loved Arthur Golden's novel, and indeed, I checked the credits many times to assure myself that this was written by a man, and I found the film really disappointing---it dragged in spots and the women came off as a silly bunch of b--ches. Most disappointing was Zhang Ziyi's performance---she seemed to fade away into the back ground, and at times looked like she was not 'there'. I found out that if you really want to see a film about geishas to see a japanese film called "A Geisha" from 1953. I requested it from my library.

[dirac]

Most disappointing was Zhang Ziyi's performance---she seemed to fade away into the back ground, and at times looked like she was not 'there'.

I noted that also, and I thought it might be the language issue. Or perhaps she just wasn’t up to carrying a project of this size.

canbelto, I saw “Munich” and your friend's opinion was a bit off, I'd say. You should definitely see it for yourself, IMO.

[Petra]

People are all over the map on Munich for a variety of reasons. I have not seen it, but I suspect it’s one of those films where you can’t go by even the most ordinarily reliable judgment, you must see for yourself if you're interested....

Absolutely agree with this statement. My husband and I saw "Munich" last week and we had to agree to disagree about this movie, even though we usually enjoy the same movies. I think the last movie we disagreed so strongly about was Schindler's List...

I thought "Munich" was an incredibly impressive movie - cinematically, emotionally and intellectually. Have to say that my reaction is very unreliable - as a left-wing Zionist Israeli currently living in the US this movie hit very close to home. I was in tears within the first 5 minutes.

My husband OTOH couldn't get over the plot holes - there is a lot the viewer has to take on trust. Both of us were impressed by the 'period' details, and Spielberg certainly provided employment for every Israeli screen actor. The last shot is brilliant.