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The GatesAny site specific choreography?


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#16 carbro

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 02:17 PM

:)

I know quite a few foreign-born tech people who are single-handedly supporting their extended families, and some even towns in their home countries, but because they aren't big on the United Way list of donors, they get no "credit" for it.

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And their families/towns are not tax-deductions, either.

I've gotten to the point where I just work hard to suppress my knee-jerk condemnations of how people spend their own money. We all squander money :( , even if only for that $5 pair of earrings or something from the ice cream parlor, that would be better spent innoculating children, supporting medical research, educating young adults . . . .

#17 atm711

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 04:13 PM

Well--the artistic side of the venture escaped me :) I do agree with Farrell Fan---it could be mistaken for a construction site. I suppose I am always suspicious of artists who have to clone one theme hundreds of times to give it some weight. I did like what Cristos did in Paris; he draped a bridge across the Seine and it was so ethereal, it looked like it could go straight up into the clouds.

#18 Michael

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 06:27 AM

The city benefitted by the influx of tourists, to say nothing of the intangible benefits of the karma, which was excellent on Sunday afternoon. What fun!

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Despite these civic benefits, I am very heartened by the people on this thread who have seen through to the "Emperor's New Clothes" aspect of this entire project. Christo is sort of the P.T. Barnum of the current art world. To follow this up, Matthew Barney should fill Central Park with Jello. We can then watch that from the roof garden at the Met.

#19 Amy Reusch

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 09:52 AM

I suppose there will always be people who think of art as unnecessary expense because it's benefits are usually intangible. However, I believe it feeds society ideas that are absorbed and then recycled in the depths of the creative process. A way of putting together notes or colors may sink in to a scientist's mind and return unconsciously as a way of putting together chemicals... or facts or whatever elements that creative person is assembling. On a more pragmatic side, I think advertising drives the success of many industries which produce "necessary" items, and a society with no art (has such a thing ever existed?) would not produce very good advertising. I'd even go so far as to say the creative freedom of western advertising is what really won the Cold War.

#20 Guest_nycdog_*

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 10:26 AM

One thing I'd like to know is why people keep calling these things 'saffron colored' when they are so definitely pumpkin!

#21 carbro

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 11:44 AM

. . .  and a society with no art (has such a thing ever existed?) . . .

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I think the desire to express onesself through art has been proven universal among humans and even been shown to exist in non-human beings. (Unfortunately, the link in that post does not bring up any examples just now.)

One thing I'd like to know is why people keep calling these things 'saffron colored' when they are so definitely pumpkin!

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Because they're not orange? :cool: I expect to see them this afternoon/evening, and I'll let you know. I hope I get there while there's still enough daylight. :flowers:

#22 carbro

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 07:58 PM

From the near distance of about half a block to two blocks away, the effect suggests a road repair site, with the orange-y caution flags. The color is slighty yellower than pumpkin, nycdog, but not yellow enough for marigold. Saffron describes it well.

Against the soft periwinkles and roses of the late afternoon western sky, the drapes looked garish and vulgar. But looking back east as they caught a breeze, the effect was lovely.

I seem to have been of two minds on this all along. :cool:

#23 Amy Reusch

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Posted 16 February 2005 - 08:57 AM

Saw this while looking for details of the fundraising

People preened under the unfurled gates, watching the fabric sway. Now one no longer ambles through the park, but rather saunters below the flapping nylon. Paths have become like processionals, boulevards decked out as if with flags for a holiday. Everyone is suddenly a dignitary on parade.

In a Saffron Ribbon, a Billowy Gift to the CityKimmelman, NY Times, 2/13/05

But this was what I was really looking for, what Nanatchka was talking about:

But all costs involved with its staging, estimated at $20 million, have been met by the artists, who refuse to accept sponsorship or donations towards funding their work. Their only revenue from the project will come from selling sketches, drawings and paintings made in the course of its planning.

'The Gates' transforms Central Park Hooper, CNN, 2/16/05

I thought I had read it explained somewhere in more detail, but can't seem to find it. I bring it up, because... well... dance companies are always facing fundraising issues.... and I was wondering why they don't help raise funds by selling the costume & set designs... I've always wondered if Diaghelev didn't use those beautiful Bakst costume designs as a means of persuading doyennes to bestow their largesse. It seems that the dance companies could make do with copies of the originals as easily as work off the actual originals, and the public relations value of having the designs prized in wealthy patron's collections would have indirect pay-offs as well. Even at a lower level, it would be wonderful if the company gift shops sold notecards of the designs, everytime someone mailed correspondence it would be like a double advertisement. Would it be an intellectual property issue for the designer? Or is it work for hire?

Have dance companies been using EBay for fundraising?


Should I double post this to the ballet-talk for dancers site?

#24 carbro

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 10:12 PM

In (on?) her blog, Tobi Tobias considers The Gates:

Entering at Central Park West and 106 Street, you clamber up eight tiers of steps bordered by boulders, gates brightly poised on either side of each landing.  At the top, you’re greeted by a goodly number of gates deployed on the periphery of a huge circle, the fabric waving in the breeze like an civic arrangement of celebratory flags.  Just past this point you reach the spot’s highest prominence—called the Great Hill, but in truth a modest elevation—from which you gaze down through thickets of branches glinting silver in the afternoon light to see smaller parades of flags, tracing other byways. Downtown, the Great Lawn offers an even grander curved formation, but the larger expanse of the ground encompassed diffuses the enthusiastic nature of the effect slightly.  Or perhaps the power of the impression depends on which location you happen to see first.



#25 Guest_nycdog_*

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 03:56 AM

I'm not saying I've come to like them, but it seems the Gates Affekt depends on the spot where they are viewed the best place I have seen is the north end of the model boat pond looking south (just north of 72nd on the east side).

#26 atm711

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 03:58 AM

Saffron?-----I don't think so. I use saffron quite a bit in my cooking and it looks nothing like 'the gates'.---Pumpkin, yes.

#27 Mel Johnson

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 04:10 AM

Saffron (crocus sativus), when used as a dye, does different things when prepared in different batches. A dye batch done in an iron pot, for instance, will look very different from one done in a copper pot. I don't have a lot of experience in using saffron as a dye, too expensive, but in Thailand, where it is in ordinary use as such, I saw a lot of saffron on the monks who were everywhere, and made their own clothing in some orders. I saw a lot of it because the stuff grows there. In temperate zones, this crocus only comes up in late summer.

#28 Farrell Fan

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 09:03 AM

I was beginning to think I should take another walk through The Gates in a different spot to see if I liked them any better, when I was brought up short by a smug sentence in today's NY Times Metropolitan Diary: "Central Park, we agreed, has never looked better."

I think I'll wait a couple of months and see what Mother Nature has to offer.

#29 Marga

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 11:02 AM

My only view of the Gates was after the Stars of the 21st Century gala as we drove toward the Triboro bridge in the rain. My friend was doing the driving so I got to look at the visible parts of the installation as we drove along Central Park West. Because of the rain and wind, some of the drapes were wrapped around the top bar (as often happens to flags left out in the rain) and looked pretty bad.

My friend "did" the walk through the park in the driving rain before the ballet, while I was watching the dress rehearsal, and found it interesting, if not particularly stunning. She said that viewing it from different aspects lets you see either a wall of saffron? pumpkin? tangerine? (definately not terra cotta, peach, canteloupe, salmon, coral or shrimp) or undulating waves. People walked under the drapes with a hushed reverance or awe, she sensed, in contrast to the usual mood in Central Park. Personally (and after going through the obligatory pooh-poohing), I think it was a nice diversion for February.

I don't know if the "emporer has no clothes" analogy is quite apt, despite the clever political cartoon in the New York Post that week (or was it the Daily News?) because in the emporer's tale everyone was too afraid to speak out and we have no end to opinions pro and con on this thread or in the media!

#30 kfw

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 11:18 AM

Well--the artistic side of the venture escaped me :wub: 

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I've only seen photos, and I'm open to persuasion, but for now I have to agree. The project sounds like great fun for the Christos and their helpers, and no doubt it's a kick for many New Yorkers as well. But if that's art, as in fine art, then what's a Cezanne? If I wrap Peter Boal and Maria Kowroski in orange and get them to dance the pas de deux for Apollo and Terpsichore, can I call myself a choreographer? The Gates are only "beautiful" because the park is beautiful.


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