Least favorite dancers!

[Alexandra]

Carbro, the "musical" aspect fascinates me. There are many that would agree with you, I'm sure, and many others who've written about Nureyev's musicality (finding it one of the most pleasurable things about his dancing). It's the same with Makarova. I remember Croce writing about her musicality and British critics writing about how wonderful she was except (and I forget who this was) "the lack of musicality which is her besetting sin." Which just means that there are different senses of what is musical.

[carbro]

Carbro, the "musical" aspect fascinates me.

Yes, me too. Totally, totally subjective, isn't it?

[Alexandra]

Yes, but it's also so specific. It's like another debate we've had here about certain dancers -- Pavlenko for one -- whom some people see as "cold" and others don't. That would seem to be something more quantifiable.

I thought I'd figured the Makarova musicality angle out that those who thought she wasn't musical did so because they didn't like the way she'd play with tempi -- slowing things down and then speeding them up. But I've discussed that with people who say, no, that's allowable (to them) but she just wasn't musical. Meaning they didn't think her movements mirrored/coordinated/whatever the music.

As for Nureyev, one of my enduring memories of him are the a few moments in several classical variations (Corsaire, for one) where he caught the waltzing in the tempo more clearly than anyone I've ever seen. That's at least one attribute of musicality, to me. (I also thought Makarova was musical, by the way, despite the Extreme Rubato.)

To bring this back to the topic -- my least favorite dances are often unmusical

[carbro]

So we agree on Makarova.

At one of her lecture-demos a few years ago, Suki Shorer explained the musicality of Balanchine's Sugar Plum Fairy adage: Sometimes you dance on the music, sometimes you dance against the music, and sometimes you dance through the music. It's those "against" and "through" passages where the trick is not to lose a relationship with the music, and I think Makarova's musicality most came through there.

[Alexandra]

That's very close to something I read that Makarova said once. Someone complained that she'd danced two "Swan Lakes" very differently, musically speaking, one night to the next. "I dance with the music," she said. But the second night was different. "I dance with the music."

There's also the question of what the dancer is hearing; Farrell talks about hearing the undercurrents in the music, and aspects of music that aren't strictly on the counts.

But....we're getting far afield.

Who are your least favorite dancers and why (remembering to be as kind as possible, since they may read what you say )

[ConstanzaElisabeth]

Musicality is a must for me, and the one thing I truly can't stand on any dancer is bad arms, any affectations that destroy the fluidity of a line or the smoothness of a movement, especially in jumps, if the arms aren't quiet and make it look too strained. I haven't seen enough live ballets, or even videos really, to say which dancer I really dislike, but I find that I'm one of the rare few who dislike Balanchine choreography. I just cant stand it. I know everyone says its so musical, but to me it alway feels like it has nothing to do with the music. It never quite seems to fit. I know its not a dancer, but hey, it works :rolleyes:

[MakarovaFan]

silvy,

I completely agree with you about Herrera. I've seen her live and on film and she's all technique and has no emotional impact on me.

[silvy]

I went over my post in this forum, and realized that I sounded rather too harsh on Ms Herrera. I did not mean that she does not have any appeal to me: quite the contrary: among her assets I want to point out that she has a fine, womanly stage presence, a beautiful body and gorgeous feet, which she knows how to use well. And wonderful turn out. Apart from her technical prowess, which is outstanding

Silvy

[Cygnet]

IMHO my votes go to Galina Mezentseva, Natalya Bessmertnova, Farouk Ruzimatov and Gennady Selyutsky. Although Mezentseva was good, she was a technically inconsistent dancer and she never seemed musical to me. I witnessed

what A. Croce stated regarding Galina in a review of "La Bayadere" "..... I know Nikiya is supposed to be dead, but blind?"

Bessmertnova's musical and technical gifts weren't suited for Petipa's ballets; her greatest roles were "Giselle" "Les Sylphides/Chopiniana" & Lavrovsky's Juliet. She fared best in her husband's (Grigorovich's) works. Farouk Ruzimatov: How can I state this diplomatically? He had great virtuosity in his salad days but he's an inconsiderate partner. He always seems to be dancing with and for himself. Yeah, I know the following are character roles, but the High Brahmin, Hilarion and Catalabutte are roles that call for subtle and nuanced mime, not cartoonish acting. I hope the following is not considered inappropriate, as I'm trying to be vivid in my description. Gennady Selyutsky's interpretation of these roles reminded me of Inspector Clouseau disguised as Don Corleone in "The Godfather," desperately trying to get Kato's attention because he was choking on cotton.

Edited March 19, 2004 by Cygnet

[Hal]

I know that it is not very PC, but I generally dislike heavier ballerinas. Of course none are really fat, but I do not enjoy the more rotund of the genre. Best example is Monque Muniere, obviously a great dancer, and adored by many, but I never found her body type appealing and never really took to her. On the other hand there is Wendy Whelen, whom often appears too thin, but I prefer that by a long shot. This from a used to be thin, overweight guy.

It's actually the roundedness, rubinesqueness that I don't appreciate. Some broad shoulder dancers such as Darci Kistler and Karen Von Aroldingen are/were favorites.

I also am not fond of shorter dancers for the most part. I like them tall, skinny and elegant. Farrell, Kowroski are ideals. I know it is the stereotypical NYCB dancer that is/was not always the case, but that is my general preference.

So while Bouder and Ansenelli are wonderful little dancers, their smallness detracts from their appeal to me. :shrug: I like incredible long legs to stretch from hither to yon and back. Of course with their wonderful performances this winter I am more than happy to pay my money to see them dance.

[nysusan]

Musicality is very important to me, also plastique and the ability of the dancer to convey emotion through the choreography. Affectations can be very distracting, I’m especially annoyed by wristy dancers. My least favorite dancer of all time is Eleanor d’Antuono. I thought she looked downright ungainly at times, and her facial expression always looked phony to me.

These days, the dancer I try hardest to avoid is Paloma Herrera, but she’s a special case. She’s so talented, but she looks like 2 different dancers. She’s gorgeous from the waist down with those beautiful feet & legs and her wonderful, precise footwork but from the waist up, there’s nothing going on. Her spine seems very unpliable and her port des bras lack expression. The funny thing is that I saw her in some “modern” ballets at ABT’s last City Center season and I liked her much better in that light. It was like she just let the dancing flow once she didn’t have to worry about looking like a ballerina.

Re: Nureyev, I was lucky enough to see him with Fonteyn & the RB in the late 60’s, and the memory of those early years always allowed me to forgive his garish later performances. One of his later performances that I absolutely loved was in the mid 70’s at an ABT gala. He did Corsaire with Kirkland and it took my breath away. They had such chemistry together, and his ardent pirate played so well off the delicate persona she presented.

[Mme. Hermine]

well the library has that performance on this jam-packed video:

**********

Le corsaire pas de deux (ca. 10 min.) / recorded at New York State Theater, New York, N.Y., as part of American Ballet Theatre's gala performance on July 28, 1975 ; choreography, Rudolf Nureyev after Marius Petipa ; danced by Gelsey Kirkland and Rudolf Nureyev. Adagio incomplete.

Raymonda [excerpts] (ca. 51 min.) / recorded at the Uris Theater, New York, N.Y., on November 15, 1975 (evening) ; choreography, Rudolf Nureyev after Marius Petipa ; scenery and costumes, Nicholas Georgiadis ; lighting, Nicholas Cernovitch ; danced by American Ballet Theatre: Gelsey Kirkland (Raymonda) ; Rudolf Nureyev (Jean de Brienne), Ted Kivitt (Abdul-Rakhman), Kristine Elliott (Henriette), Marianna Tcherkassky (Clemance), John Prinz (Bernard), Terry Orr (Beranger), Patricia Wesche (White Lady), others.

Shadowplay [excerpts] (ca. 9 min.) / recorded at the Uris Theater, New York, N.Y., on December 30, 1975, and January 14, 1976 ; choreography, Antony Tudor ; scenery and costumes, Michael Annals ; lighting, Nananne Porcher ; danced by American Ballet Theatre: Mikhail Baryshnikov (boy with matted hair), Gelsey Kirkland with Michael Owen and Richard Schafer (celestials), Vladimir Gelvan (terrestrial), others.

The leaves are fading [excerpts] (ca. 13 min.) / recorded at the Uris Theater, New York, N.Y., on December 23, 1975 and February 1, 1976 (matinee) ; choreography, Antony Tudor ; scenery, Ming Cho Lee ; costumes, Patricia Zipprodt ; lighting, Jennifer Tipton ; danced by American Ballet Theatre: Gelsey Kirkland with Dennis Wayne (Dec. 23) and Ivan Nagy (Feb. 1), and others. Two performances edited for continuity; shots of Wayne and Nagy alternate in the duet with Kirkland.

Le corsaire pas de deux [excerpts] (ca. 6 min.) / recorded at City Center, New York, N.Y., on January 25, 1975 (evening) ; choreography, Rudolf Nureyev after Marius Petipa ; danced by American Ballet Theatre: Gelsey Kirkland and Ted Kivitt. Lacks male dancer's first entrance, variation and solo choreography in coda.

[carbro]

A Gelsey tape! :party:

Can anyone view it, or do we need permission, do you know?

[Mme. Hermine]

i don't think it's by permission. however these films are all silent, (tho with what one is watching who cares?)

[Hans]

Re: Herrera, I thought it was interesting that some mention her "good" technique, whereas one of the reasons I dislike her is for what I think is rather mediocre to downright sloppy technique, especially in terms of footwork and port de bras...the beautiful feet and legs are there, but I just don't see them being used with much precision :shrug:

I also have to disagree with Hal--I know it's just personal taste, for which there is no accounting (so this is not a personal attack, just stating a difference of opinion), but I think it is her very thinness and unusual proportions that make Whelan so difficult for me to watch...I prefer dancers who look more womanly, but then I also like the tutu ballets more, not the leotard/unitard ones in which a skin-and-bones body sometimes looks heavy. And this from an underweight guy...I wonder if there's a correlation there. Hm....

[nysusan]

:offtopic: , I know, but I just saw Whelan tonight with Peter Boal's studio company and I absolutely love her! I, too am more of a "tutu ballet" fan, and a classical vs. neoclassical or modern fan,but there are exceptions. I don't love her because she's so skinny. I love her because she's so skinny & muscular & angular and she makes it work. I've only seen her twice so far and I love the way she uses her angularity to such great advantage. She creates indelible images & imagery and that's something I really missed with most of the dancers I've seen recently at NYCB. I miss that boldness. In some ways she reminds me of Karin Von Aroldingen, another dancer with a very "untypical" physique that I loved in her time.

[Hal]

but I think it is her very thinness and unusual proportions that make Whelan so difficult for me to watch...I prefer dancers who look more womanly, but then I also like the tutu ballets more, not the leotard/unitard ones in which a skin-and-bones body sometimes looks heavy.

I dont see how skin and bones makes someone look heavy. Seems a contradiction to me. And from the above I assume you hate Calcium Light Night, if you have ever seen it. It was done for Heather Watts in her very skinny period by Martins. It is coming back in the spring and I am anxious to see who does it. It is a perfect ballet for Whelan. It is Martins first ballet I believe (and one of his best IMHO).

[Hans]

Sorry, I meant even a skin and bones body--important little clarification there . I've never seen Calcium Night Light, and doubt that I ever will now that I'm no longer in New York. But the title sounds interesting .

[Mel Johnson]

Hans, the title refers to a night on the Yale campus when the students used to dress as "druids", hire out limelights and bring them to the campus. They then played them all over the buildings and up into the sky, producing some pretty effects. Ives (Yale 1898) participated in several Calcium Light Nights and used this piece of music to describe the hubbub of a large, riotous crowd of college boys with large gas-powered toys. How they got the gas to the campus, I know not.

[oberon]

We just saw Wendy at the Joyce last night and I think she has gained a couple of

ounces during her layoff! She looked stunning, in fact...and the poster for the Peter Boal group features a superb photo of her with Peter & Sean Suozzi.

Yes, Whelan is VERY skinny...and VERY mesmerizing! I love all body types, including big girls like Monique Meunier. I always found Helen Alexopoulos's body very sexy (not to mention the face) and I love Janie Taylor's legs...and everything else about her. Variety is, after all, the spice of life.

[MakarovaFan]

I don't know what to think of Wendy Whelan. In THE NUTCRACKER flm from the early '90's she was the best 'Coffee' I've ever seen -- very sensuous. I saw her again a few years ago at NYCB's Tanaquil LeClerq tribute dancing Dewdrop and she was technically solid but projected no charm or magic at all. This, I think, is a case of miscasting.