132 replies to this topic

[Mel Johnson]

In the late 60s, d'Amboise did a St. Patrick's Day show with the Irish Rovers, who made a running joke out of mispronouncing his name.  He said it was originally "Jack", but that his grandmother was the only one to call him "Joseph".

[bart]

Mel Johnson, on May 29 2007, 04:39 PM, said:

And to make matters more confusing, sometimes the man himself would say, "ma-SEEN", and sometimes, "mya-SEEN".

I's sometimes wondered about this.  "ma-SEEN" is French.  I always assumed that the dipthong  "mya" (or "mee-ah" said very fast until it all blurs into one, bendy syllable) is the way it would have originally been spoken in Russia.  

I guess that the former has won out in this case, especially since Massine's career was overwhelmingly in France.

English speakers tend to adopt the mah-SEEN.  

Maybe Leonid was "mas-EEN" when talking with his French friends, and "mya-SEEN" when hanging out with his fellow Russian expatriates.

[volcanohunter]

bart, on May 31 2007, 11:07 AM, said:

Mel Johnson, on May 29 2007, 04:39 PM, said:

And to make matters more confusing, sometimes the man himself would say, "ma-SEEN", and sometimes, "mya-SEEN".

I's sometimes wondered about this.  "ma-SEEN" is French.  I always assumed that the dipthong  "mya" (or "mee-ah" said very fast until it all blurs into one, bendy syllable) is the way it would have originally been spoken in Russia.

What's important to remember is that iotated vowels like ya, ye, yo and yu serve two functions. At the beginning of a word, or if separated from the preceding consonant by a hard or soft sign, they are in fact pronounced as Y+vowel. But if the iotated vowel comes directly after a consonant, the Y isn't pronounced. It's just an orthographic way of indicating that the preceding consonant is softened: CyV= C'V.

Russian includes a fairly unusual group of softened labial consonants (M, B, P, V, F), which you don't run into too often (and which are extremely difficult for non-native speakers to learn to pronounce!): Perm' (p'erm'), step' (s't'ep'), ljubov' (l'ubof') or, in the relevant case, mjaso (m'asa). For English-speakers I suppose the easiest way to describe the first syllable in Massine (Мясин = m'as'in) is as something in between MA and MYA, with the M turning a little soft thanks to a Y pronounced really quickly, as bart says.

Incidentally, in the film Nijinsky, Alan Bates as Diaghilev pronounces the name more or less correctly: MYA-seen.

[bart]

Thank you so much, volcanohunter.  I certainly did not know the following:

volcanohunter, on May 31 2007, 03:54 PM, said:

Russian includes a fairly unusual group of softened labial consonants (M, B, P, V, F), which you don't run into too often (and which are extremely difficult for non-native speakers to learn to pronounce!): Perm' (p'erm'), step' (s't'ep'), ljubov' (l'ubof') or, in the relevant case, mjaso (m'asa).

And I'm truly grateful for these guidelines:

Quote

For English-speakers I suppose the easiest way to describe the first syllable in Massine (ÐœÑ�Ñ�ин  = m'as'in) is as something in between MA and MYA, with the M turning a little soft thanks to a Y pronounced really quickly, as bart says.

Incidentally, in the film Nijinsky, Alan Bates as Diaghilev pronounces the name more or less correctly: MYA-seen.

  ...     ...  

[canbelto]

I think Diana Vishneva is: dee-AH-na vish-NOY-va

[artist]

djb, on Nov 6 2003, 12:53 PM, said:

Something the lists showing the accented syllables might not be correctly showing is the pronunciation of syllables with "e" in them.  In Russian, there's a letter “ë”, which is pronounced “yo”, and if it occurs in a syllable, that syllable is always stressed.  When it’s transliterated into English, it’s usually interpreted as “e.”  Vishneva, for example, should be Vish-NYO-va.  (I noticed the more correct transliteration in a French forum, and then checked with the Russian program seller when the Kirov was here.)  The final vowel sound in Yuri Soloviev’s last name should be “yo”, which is how I’ve sometimes seen it transliterated in recent years.

djb's outstanding explanation on page 2.

[carbro]

artist, on Jun 2 2007, 05:43 PM, said:

djb's outstanding explanation on page 2.

This can be misleading.  djb's post is on page 2 if your preferences are set to default.  Some people have more posts per page (mine is set for 40, for example, which is much more efficient with a dial-up connection), but you can get the full explanation by clicking the little red arrow to the right of the date.

[Marga]

artist, thanks for bringing up djb's post.
This one I know for sure: Vishneva IS pronounced Vish-NYO-va (not vish-NOY-va -- sorry, canbelto!)

[artist]

carbro, on Jun 2 2007, 08:18 PM, said:

artist, on Jun 2 2007, 05:43 PM, said:

djb's outstanding explanation on page 2.

This can be misleading.  djb's post is on page 2 if your preferences are set to default.  Some people have more posts per page (mine is set for 40, for example, which is much more efficient with a dial-up connection), but you can get the full explanation by clicking the little red arrow to the right of the date.

ha! I didn't even notice that arrow! (it's very convenient!) Thanks yet again, carbro, for helping me out!

[artist]

Enrico Cecchetti: En-REE-ko cheh-KET-ee

Helgi Tomasson: Hel'gi (hard g) Toe'masson   ?

Farouk Ruzimatov ?

Ekaterina or Yekaterina  ? (like Maximova)

[carbro]

Helgi Tomasson:  HEL-ghee  toe-MAH-son

Farouk Ruzimatov   fah-ROOK ROO-zi-MAH-tov

[mohnurka]

It's actually Fah-ROOH (the last h is the same sound as in 'hello').

As for Maximova -- Ye-kah-te-REE-nah Mak-SEE-moh-vah

[Mel Johnson]

I think we have to go back to the standard of "How does s/he say it?"

[susibee]

Mel Johnson, on Nov 2 2004, 07:51 AM, said:

Just make it one syllable, with a hard initial "g":  GYEM.

I always pronouned Sylvie Guillem's name this way too, like the French word fille.  

However, I was recently corrected by one of my French roomates, an artist from Paris, who told me it is pronounced "gee LEM."  (That's a hard "g.")

[artist]

I've also heard that way, too.

Marcia Haydee

Aurelie (w/accent on 1st 'e') Dupont